57 Comments so far ↓

1. Berta González-Harper says:

   December 3, 2009 at 8:42 am

   A couple of comments:
   On the Newhall Land School deal, please notice they talk about some funding for elementary schools only. What about middle (Jr. High), and High Schools? Castaic has already been shafted for years and still has no high school despite the suitability of Romero Canyon for a high school site and now you add students from Newhall Ranch if and when it’s built to SCV high schools which are already overcrowded? Who pays for all of these other schools so that Newhall Land can sell all of these homes, you and me!
   On the Deputy who shot the pitbull. Why should the dog be put down? He/she was only protecting the little girl and did not actually bite anyone. I think the deputy could have used pepper spray or other means to deflect the dog. He/she should not be put down but the owners should be fined for allowing the dog to be in the care of someone (the little girl) who could not be expected to restrain and control the dog. I have a pit bull as well as other dogs. The breed has been maligned unfairly. Most are very sweet and people friendly like mine but would definitely growl etc to protect me too.
2. Jeff says:

   December 3, 2009 at 9:08 am

   The Signal said the owners weren’t treating the pit bull (bullet hadn’t been removed) because they couldn’t afford the vet bills.

   I agree the breed has been maligned unfairly, but good luck selling that around here. People here have an irrational fear of the breed.

   There are no bad dogs, only bad owners.
3. mike says:

   December 3, 2009 at 9:11 am

   hogwash, the pit bull kill rate far outstrips those of other breeds. The cop deserves no scorn or second-guessing.

   As for Jr and Sr High, the developer pays an impact fee for each new home to the district already. We don’t need a Newhall Ranch High for a long time now. A Castaic High School would accommodate those students for a very long time. Which is good, because otherwise, a CHS would be under-utilized since Castaic is so small.

   This news isn’t really news, it’s just some odd circular motion. Newhall Land builds school with its own tools, so to speak, and the the district does it part to see that they get paid back for it. The KHTS article makes it sound like some kind of gift. It ain’t.
4. mike says:

   December 3, 2009 at 9:15 am

   It’s rational insofar as the breed inflict more serious injuries and deaths than any other breed by a substantial margin. Please see prior SCVtalk threads for the data. It makes a more compelling case than a catchphrase.

   If we as a species don’t have the ability, across the board, the tame and control a type of animal, then we have no business keeping them as pets.
5. mike says:

   December 3, 2009 at 9:15 am

   (getting home from kogi at 2am has left me grouchy, so take this with a grain of salt)
6. Jim Farley says:

   December 3, 2009 at 9:16 am

   While Pit Bulls can indeed be nice, I’ve seen plenty that are not. The problem is that when they are agressive they have more potential than many dogs to do real harm due to the nature of their breeding. The Deputy didn’t have time to analyze if the dog would bite or not. A Pit Bull protecting a child is always to be considered dangerous. He was correct to shoot it.
7. v-town OG says:

   December 3, 2009 at 9:20 am

   right, they’re dangerous. that why I got mine.
8. CC says:

   December 3, 2009 at 9:22 am

   Woo Hoo! Sprouts! Take THAT Trader Joes!
9. Jim Farley says:

   December 3, 2009 at 9:25 am

   Here’s a report from the National Weather Service on our upcomming weather. It looks like Dan Mansada and all of us may get our wish for the El Nino event. Hopefully it will impact the Sierra snowpack.

   http://forecast.weather.gov/wwamap/wwatxtget.php?cwa=lox&wwa=special%20weather%20statement

   Now if we can just get the environmentalists to stop worrying about a stupid fish perhaps we can end this ‘crisis’.
10. CC says:

    December 3, 2009 at 9:27 am

    In the right hands a Pit Bull is a wonderful dog. Unfortunatly, since it has the capability to inflict a lot of damage, some people use them as a symbol of power and do not take the necessary steps to train this dog. The problem is not the dog, but the owner. Perhaps a license should be required to own this dog. All one has to do is take a tour of the local animal shelter to see that the majority of the dogs there are pit bulls who for one reason or another did not get the right family.
11. CC says:

    December 3, 2009 at 9:33 am

    How much do you actually know about the ’stupid fish’ Jim? Did you know the Delta Smelt is a key indicator of the health of the Delta’s ecosystem?

    Check out this link if you actually want to learn anything: http://www.fws.gov/pacific/ecoservices/envicon/pim/reports/Sacramento/SacramentoDelta.htm
12. mike says:

    December 3, 2009 at 9:34 am

    Never been to a sprouts, but it really looks like the right balance for this town. For a cook, probably better than Trader Joe’s and I’m assuming we’ll get some non-insane prices. Might be the nail in the coffin for Bristol Farms,

    I will say this – supermarkets without a natural residential customer base have a very hard time. For almost everyone traveling almost anywhere in SCV, there will be a more convenient place to stop.
13. mike says:

    December 3, 2009 at 9:35 am

    CC, did you just bring science into this? This is too much. I need a break.
14. Berta González-Harper says:

    December 3, 2009 at 10:06 am

    While I respect all of your comments I stand by my statements. Pit Bulls make fine family pets when properly socialized. The breed has been unfairly maligned because these stereotypes continue to be represented as fact. Check out the actuaL statistics on dog attacks and bites from a reputable source and you will find that pitbulls are not at the top of the list as most people believe. People tend to believe what they hear over and over again. That is one reason the breed winds up in shelters so much. Another reason is people don’t want to be bothered to properly train any dog, let alone a pit bull.Irresponsible owners, not bad dog breeds.
15. v-town OG says:

    December 3, 2009 at 10:23 am

    You can imagine a data set. How about producing one?

    You present a dilemma that hasn’t been reconciled and the net result has been vicious attacks and killings.
16. v-town says:

    December 3, 2009 at 10:23 am

    LOL just joking. no one is taking my dogs
17. IHeartSCV says:

    December 3, 2009 at 10:34 am

    Berta, you are mistaken. As Mike pointed out, pit bulls account for more attacks, maimings, and killings than virtually any other breed. They also attack more adults (vs. children) than other breeds, and have much stronger jaw musculature than most breeds, making them more likely to inflict a serious bite if they do attack.

    From the Journal of the American Veterinary Association:

    Studies indicate that pit bull-type dogs were involved in approximately a third of human DBRF (i.e., dog bite related fatalities) reported during the 12-year period from 1981 through1992, and Rottweilers were responsible for about half of human DBRF reported during the 4 years from 1993 through 1996….[T]he data indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs accounted for 67% of human DBRF in the United States between 1997 and 1998. It is extremely unlikely that they accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the United States during that same period and, thus, there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities.” (Sacks JJ, Sinclair L, Gilchrist J, Golab GC, Lockwood R. Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998. JAVMA 2000;217:836-840.
18. Valencia Joe says:

    December 3, 2009 at 10:34 am

    Mike – I sure hope that Sprouts will not be nail in the coffin for Bristol Farms. Bristol Farms just opened at the wrong time. If it was a year earlier, it probably would have done better than it is doing now. It is really depressing going into that place and seeing it empty. The lack of customers ends up trickling down to the lack of hot food for sale. I went there the other night and found not one hot food tray stocked, the salad portion of the salad bar depleted, and a poor selection of their hot meats. I wish they had some put some thought about its nearby competition and designed a different Bristol Farms, one that is not dependent on products that can be found way cheaper at the nearby Ralphs, Vons or Albertsons.
19. mike says:

    December 3, 2009 at 10:47 am

    Joe, yeah, just prognosticating. I don’t want any specialty grocers to fail, but BF seems built for people who don’t have a care in the world about what things cost. The markup on conventional products is so outrageous, you wonder if the premium-priced items are anything special. This town has a hard time supporting your fancier grocery stores. Remember Pavilions and Fresh Fare? USDA Prime, bulk herbs, truffles (truffles?). In the SCV today, they are nearly indistinguishable from a newer Vons or Ralphs.
20. IHeartSCV says:

    December 3, 2009 at 10:49 am

    …and more recently, pit bulls appear to be responsible for an even greater percentage of dog-bite-related fatalities:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_killed_by_dogs_in_the_United_States
21. cash says:

    December 3, 2009 at 10:50 am

    High School. Not to worry about a high school to serve Newhall Ranch. Larry Rasmussen owns property at Romero and Hasley canyon. Larry’s site and one other made the first cut for a new school to serve Castaic. Richard Patterson is pushing the other site. My money is on Larry having his site selected. If you visit the location you will think this is a crazy place for a new school to serve Castaic. Not so fast, the location is just a short drive from Newhall Ranch, even though the access is not the best. Larry’s connections, if nothing else, will lead to his success.

    Hopefully our new board member, you know, the guy with the odd hair, well see through this and not be influenced by Larry, and will select a more suitable site for Castaic. Newhall Land needs to build the schools to serve Newhall Ranch, or as Mike indicates, put up the cash. Newhall is in survival mode, so don’t hold your breath regard Newhall Ranch.
22. cash says:

    December 3, 2009 at 10:52 am

    A dog is shot and we ramble on and on. A person is shot and we say very little. Go figure.
23. mike says:

    December 3, 2009 at 10:55 am

    I Heart, good work on the cite. I can’t imagine how people can construe these data to find the danger to humans to be indistinguishable from other breeds. Those crackpots at the CDC really have it in for pit bulls, right?

    I also don’t see a counterargument as to why we need to maintain any particular breed as a pet for humans. It seems like an aesthetic choice, or at least an emotional one. Do they serve some purpose that I’m unaware of? Do they have a value that other, safer, breeds do not?
24. mike says:

    December 3, 2009 at 10:59 am

    cash, good point. Curious, how would one drive from the Romero site to Nehwall Ranch? Looks a little far to me, and quite a bit further than the Hasley site. Just curious, and I don’t have a dog in this fight, but I haven’t heard much in terms of an access plan for either site. With the Hasley/Sloan site, for example, I would assume that they would need to widen Hasley and maybe even pave Sloan to Hillcrest, but I haven’t seen any specific info on either.
25. Timothy Myers says:

    December 3, 2009 at 11:01 am

    Cash:

    I would give a very slight edge to Patterson at this point. Neither site is “ideal,” and a cost comparison is extremely difficult, so I predict it will end up being a referendum on Patterson v. Rasmussen and I think Rick has a slight edge right now.
26. Jane says:

    December 3, 2009 at 11:01 am

    Bristol Farms is prohibitively expensive. So much so that they are not rotating their stock, the last 3 times I’ve stopped there the items I wanted were out of code. Most recently, the can had a July buy by date and I was there right before Thanksgiving.

    Pit Bulls – Responsible owners will always say the breed isn’t a problem. Unfortunately, the rest of us have to deal with the majority of owners who are not responsible and do have problem dogs.

    I think the deputy did the right thing, would people have cut him or her some slack if they had allowed the dog to bite them before shooting it?
27. Kevin D. Korenthal says:

    December 3, 2009 at 11:38 am

    Speaking of jobs, who is and who is not invited to Obama’s job summit?

    Small business owners—Not invited.
    U.S. Chamber of Commerce—Not invited.
    Andy Stern, President of the Service Employees International Union—Invited.
    National Federation of Independent Businesses – Not invited.
    United Steel Workers union president—Invited
    Teacher’s union president—Invited
    Anna Burger, SEIU .. invited.
    Big Obama Donors. Invited.
    Opponents of Obama’s stimulus spending. Not invited

    Hat tip Neal Boortz
28. Berta González-Harper says:

    December 3, 2009 at 11:44 am

    Although fatal attacks on humans appear to be a breed-specific problem (pit bull-type dogs and Rottweilers), other breeds may bite and cause fatalities at higher rates.

    This part must have been accidentally omitted from the referenced report.
    Please note the part that says:other breeds may bite and cause fatalities at higher rates.

    And the reference is for Pit Bull Type (?) dogs and Rottweilers combined. I understand those who have made up their mind will not change but still have to try to present the facts.I also did not say the deputy should not have shot the dog, only offered an alternative. I did say the dog should not be put down. Again, stand by my statements. I’m done thanks!
29. lvogel says:

    December 3, 2009 at 11:51 am

    You’re right Cash, a dog gets shot and we ‘ramble’ on-and-on about it…so I’ll continue:

    “The problem is not the dog, but the owner.”
    I don’t know cc. What you hear so often about PitBulls (from the owners) is how sweet they are and loving, only to have that same sweet dog turn on the ‘youngest’ in the family, usually a screaming, giggling or romping toddler!

    If I was the officer and it was between the dog and myself (not knowing how ’sweet’ this dog was) I would have also shot, if it charged me. Typically, the human (often the very young as I mentioned) if they survive are terribly mauled by these strong dogs. Also, after being ’shot’ this dog may NEVER be the same again. When trauma stikes ANY dog, they don’t remain the same and there are usually large personality changes with ANY dog when they’ve been injured traumatically.
30. mike says:

    December 3, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    Shorter BGH: you can have your facts, I’ll stick with my assumptions.
31. Berta González-Harper says:

    December 3, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    Fair enough Mike. I really did not expect a different outcome. PS mine is a shelter rescue and she really is sweet, loves my other dogs and loves my grandkids etc but I don’t leave any small child alone with any dog of any breed, period.
32. mike says:

    December 3, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    difference is, if you leave an adult alone with a pit bull, and the dog has a moment, as all dogs can, it’s advantage pit bull. As such, the cop has to do what he has to do.
33. Pauline Harte says:

    December 3, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    That’s our dog, Max, the chocolate lab in today’s Signal, playing with the boxer. Max is 8 months old, and lives to play, but I don’t take him to dog parks on a regular basis because there is always an aggressive dog ready to pick fights, like last night.

    The problem with aggrssive dogs is that too many of them have idiot owners that underestimate or ignore their dog’s nasty disposition. Max is already 75 pounds (and sleeps with us) but would be no match if a pit bull attacked him, so I really wish people would keep their aggressive dogs out of the dog parks. Or at least remove them the FIRST time their dog attacks, and not just leave it to attack a second time – like last night. And don’t come back, thank you very much.

    When pits attack, the injury they cause is much worse than other dog bites because of the tremendous amount of pressure they have in their mouths, and that is a fact. I agree they are super-friendly, but when they go into attack mode, injury will be substansive.

    As for the irresponsible owners of the pit bull that cannot be treated for the bullet wound because the owners cannot afford it, that dog should be removed from their home immediately and treated, how inhumane is that! Absolutely disgusting. Animal abuse is a felonly in California, and leaving a bullet wound untreated is animal abuse.
34. Valencia Joe says:

    December 3, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    Jane & Mike – the other Bristol Farms that I have been to (South Pasadena and Westlake Village) are always packed. The thing that benefits those two is that there is no direct competition. With the location in Valencia, they have to directly compete with Trader Joe’s and Whole Foods in terms of speciality stores, and Vons, Ralphs and Albertsons, all within a very short driving (or walking) distance. That hurts when competition is so close. There are other things that I have found fault with the store (such as parking), but it is competition that is driving the clientele away.
35. cash says:

    December 3, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    Road improvements are an issue for both sites. One more than the other. Access would have to be through Val Verde or the industrial center. It was pretty clear watching the hearing that Larry has a leg up. I don’t believe the Romero site is the best, but when politics are in play logic does not apply.

    We have not seen the Hasley Canyon homeowners flexing their muscle yet. If Romero begins to firm up, and it looks like the quality of life in their area may take a hit………, there may be a attitude change.
36. cash says:

    December 3, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    Ramble on Ivogel, it is a free county, sort of!

    Dogs are not people yet many treat them as if they were. Some even treat dogs better than they treat people. I love my dog but I do not expect everyone else to love her. She lives the life of a dog and not the life of a human. Call me old, but she is a dog.
37. lvogel says:

    December 3, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    I completely agree Cash! Dogs will be dogs and should be treated as such, however they are still a part of our families, eh?
38. mike says:

    December 3, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    cash, either site would have a major impact on the Hasley way of life. I’m not sure what sort of muscle they have, but it won’t be country living as they know it for much longer, either way.
39. mike says:

    December 3, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    which, is fine by me. the school has to go somewhere.
40. Jane says:

    December 3, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    Pauline – The Signal’s story was all sweetness and light (as usual), what happened at the dog park?
41. spineflower2 says:

    December 3, 2009 at 1:48 pm

    Is this the same Dan Masnada that ridiculed my figure of 50% water delivery a couple of years ago at public meetings?

    CLWA has historically used 100% in EIR responses in order to maximize new developement for the campaign donators to its board members (developers). The other 95% is the “paper water” that CLWA has said is real.

    You can’t drink paper.

    Though their board apparently eats lots of green paper…
42. spineflower2 says:

    December 3, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    I’m getting old, that was about 5 or more years ago, at the then-just-opened public meeting hall at Hart Park.
43. Jim Farley says:

    December 3, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    cc & mike re: Science and the Delta Smelt.

    So you think ’science’ can’t have a political element. What about Climategate and the recent findings about the Climate Research Unit? They clearly faked data to make their political point. Did the folks that researched the Delta Smelt have no political agenda?

    This report blows the whole man made global warming argument out of the water:

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/01/lord-moncktons-summary-of-climategate-and-its-issues/
44. mike says:

    December 3, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    Jim,

    I think we should pause and pose this to this to our resident politically conservative scientist/naturalist. May his ruling stand.

    You know who you are. Please rule.
45. Pauline Harte says:

    December 3, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    Hi Jane. There was an aggressive dog at the park, and fortunately, all dog owners were on top of it. There is a clearly posted sign on all the gates of all the dog parks, prohibiting aggressive dogs, and this one dog was clearly “unsociable” in a big way, shouldn’t have been turned loose with other dogs. The Signal reporting was fine, no injuries, the aggressive dog was taken out of the park and fun and games began again. This dog park has thick grass, since it is new. I must say, the Sports Complex is so amazing, to view it from the top of the hill, wow. Kids are so lucky to have all this.
46. Timothy Myers says:

    December 3, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    Cash:

    It’s a push, but I would give it up to Hasley Canyon. The arm twisting will go one behind the scenes and it won’t be real apparent what is happening in public.

    mike:

    I am sure the horse folk will mobilize but the Board will just say sorry, the overwhelming majority of the community wants a high school and it has to go somewhere. (Also, there was a rumor that activists were going to collect hundreds of petition signatures that would be trotted out in public meetings to neutralize the 20 to 50 NIMBYS that would show up to complain)
47. IHeartSCV says:

    December 3, 2009 at 5:26 pm

    Jim–I agree that people can let political interests cloud how they present scientific findings. Still, Delta Smelt population numbers are presented without the sort of “corrections”, grafts, or other modifications that are at the root of climategate. And there are a half-dozen or so different surveys in the Bay-Delta for fishes and smelt done by Federal, State, and university researchers, so any one group trying to push their political agenda by doctoring findings would have to have all the other groups in on the plot. Furthermore, the number of court cases over Delta Smelt (and most other endangered species) by conservation groups, farmers who want water, etc. means that all findings are being closely scrutinized by both sides. So even though I know ecologists and wildlife biologists as a group value conservation, I don’t think there isn’t a smeltgate.
48. IHeartSCV says:

    December 3, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    “I don’t think there isn’t a smeltgate.”

    Let me correct my double-negative: I don’t think there is a smeltgate.
49. mike says:

    December 3, 2009 at 6:22 pm

    It is so ordered.

    Thank you, your honor.
50. Jim Farley says:

    December 3, 2009 at 9:01 pm

    I understand that I have brought up two different issues where science is involved. It is not logical to say that because climategate must be true so is smeltgate. IHeart I have always respected your opinion on these issues, you have obviously done more homework than me here.

    That being said I also feel that a lot of ‘environmental science’ is being driven by political interests. I believe the farmers of the central valley are more important than the fish. That doesn’t mean we should trash the environment. Conservatives like nature and clean air too.

    And Mike – It’s nice you are the self designated final arbitor. I bow like Obama to the Primier of China to you. Some day maybe I will have the wisdom of Solomon you posess. Oh sorry – that was a biblical reference – hope nobody is offended.
51. mike says:

    December 3, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    Jim,
    The wisdom isn’t mine or yours. Nor am I the arbiter. The dual honor goes to IHeart. I called upon him to apply his expertise and he came down with a “probably something”. Since I lean every so slightly left, I love a nice gray area.

    I’d rather us and the farmers have the water, but it sounds like there’s quite a bit more to this. We’re all entitled to our kneejerk reactions, I have plenty. The rest of us are here to provide checks & balances. That’s love Jim, that’s love.

    Cheers
52. Jim Farley says:

    December 3, 2009 at 9:25 pm

    Thanks Mike – I just popped a Coors Light to your cheers. The debate is good. I can’t believe I’m eating dinner this late……
53. Fred says:

    December 4, 2009 at 7:06 am

    This is at the long line of a now defunct post, but none the less,

    CC wrote: “Check out this link if you actually want to learn anything” and then CC provided link.

    CC, there was way too much speculation and beard stroking in the conclusions of that article for you to throw it up as being a reputable refutation. Before linking to articles, it may do better to be educated on the nature scientific inquiry and determine if said evidence represents as much.
54. mike says:

    December 4, 2009 at 8:53 am

    Fred, I must retract my prior statements. I was unaware that there was beard-stroking going on. Clearly, these scientists are frauds. I’m going to trust that you read the 24-page report that the page summarized, right?
55. Fred says:

    December 4, 2009 at 1:05 pm

    Yep. It is just as I wrote. Beard stroking and speculation. Too many uses of the words “possibly” and “maybe” and “probably” and the phrase, “more research is needed.”

    Those things don’t warrant the action they have taken.
56. John Adams says:

    December 4, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    Why did you lie and say Pacific Lock had hired “hundreds” after recieveing stimulus money. Did you even read the story?
57. cash says:

    December 5, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    timmy, The arm twisting will go one behind the scenes and it won’t be real apparent what is happening in public.

    You are correct. That is the way the GOBN works. It is too bad the average taxpayer does not see this.

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