I will say it straight up. I have never personally posted on a message board or a discussion group without putting my own name on it, first and last.
This is simply for my own protection. Primarily, I don’t want to ever put up anything crazy on a message board or discussion group that I will regret later, and doing so under my own name provides a useful governor. Also, I can easily debunk someone who attempts to post under my name.
Now some do post under sobriquets. In many cases these are nicknames and most regular posters know who they are (in the case of SCVTalkers, Petz2, Jeff, Mike, mikec and now blazingmonk) but in most cases folks use entirely made up names to presumably hide their true identities.
Now why would people hide their true identities? I believe this is mostly driven by fear, from the light fear of social opprobrium to the heavier fear of retaliation in their business or in their job. It is interesting that the only time I have ever received significant anonymous material was when I wrote something mildly critical about the management of the Senior Center and got three typed unsigned letters and two telephone calls (bless their hearts the seniors calling were not up to date on call identifier). The letters encouraged me to look further into Senior Center management, but I will not unless people are willing to put their names behind their accusations. I found it instructive that the aged, demonstrably in an extremely vulnerable position and dependent on the Senior Center for a variety of services, felt the most fear of discovery.
Now we recently had a “name” poster attempt to out a new phenomena on SCVTalk with the name poster accusing sobriquet posters of being real people posting under both their own names and an alias. The most notorious national occurence of this came to light in 2007 when it was revealed that Whole Foods CEO John Mackey had for nine years posted under the sobriquet “Rahodeb” in various public internet forums praising Whole Foods and blasting their rivals, including Wild Oats during a merger negotiation.
Now I am not sure how to react to this, if true. The Mackey incident showed an unhinged individual trying to mold opinion on the world wide web which seems like trying to empty the Pacific with a teaspoon. In the cozy and small neighborhood of SCVTalk, where one is talking to a relatively small group, it seems strange to add fake people to the conversation.
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Tim
What if it is not true and just a case of false accusations?
I have been quietly reading the blog and noted that one individual offered to meet with the accuser to prove that her perception is incorrect. When she declined the invitation it appeared, to me, that possibly she did not want to know the truth and was content to live with her fantasy.
As a moderator, when do you think it is appropriate to discontinue approving posts by a person making unsubstantiated accusations of this nature?
Sooner rather than later. This kind of snippity posting is what unhinged TITTS, HISC, and several additional forums that followed, now dead due to the backlash and continued baiting, and especially the focussing on the poster’s identity instead of the content of the posts themselves. It’s a distraction, it’s boring, and it makes the board about the fighters, not the topic.
That has recently escalated here, and I hope it’s not tolerated long enough to destroy this forum, too.
Petz serves as an alter ego that allows him to speak in the language of the street, rather than the erudite voice which he uses in everday life.
Steve Petzold
I use to use my name. I started using two different names to spare people that didn’t want discuss or hear political or social matters.
So I separated them.
It’s just a blog, get over it.
John Smith
It’s impossible to enforce a “Post under your own name” requirement. That is, unless, you want to submit a credit card as verification of your name prior to posting.
How I’ve dealt with slanderous comments in the past has worked pretty well. When things get really hot around here I simply hold all comments for moderation. Those that go beyond the scope of this site or make slanderous/libelous accusations never see the light of day. They just disappear into the ether.
I then post the good comments until the tao of commenting returns to its proper balance of information/commentary/entertainment.
This inevitably leads to claims by my detractors of “censorship” (as if I’m some powerful government agency) but it’s occasionally necessary.
Alan – if you read the entire conversation you would remember that it wasn’t a “perception” that was “incorrect”. TBB called me a Nazi to …my face. This was a fact. I also know of three other people who he wielded this off-handed racist comment. However, I was only speaking for myself. He responded on this blog that my statement wasn’t true. It was a simple, “he said”, “she said”. I’m ok with that. It doesn’t surprise me that he denied it.
I don’t live in a fantasy and don’t need to “seek the truth”. The topic was TBB and his character and I was sharing a real life interaction I had with him. Just because some of you are supporters doesn’t mean my claim was an “unsubstantiated accusation”. There is no way to verify it since it was a conversation between two people. Again, I’m ok with that since I know he remembers.
I find it interesting that some of you are SO INTERESTED in poster’s identity and completely forget about the topic. I also think Jeff does an excellent job maintaining this blog and posting interesting articles. The content of the blog is why I started following. The CONTENT…not it’s followers.
Hello all.
Mr. Ferdman has his own axe to grind with me and is part of TimBen’s campaign, so I will hold off further comment for now but simply say take it from the source.
I have not yet declined any invitation but do so now since I will tell you there is no point meeting with your stand-ins. You can send out as many red herrings as you like, these posters are who I have named. Others can believe me or not. Those choosing to post under assumed names are welcome to do so. I get the point when people are posting information to educate and are privy to information that might compromise their job, etc. if their identity were revealed. I have no quarrel with them.
However, when people use anonymous postings to slander and insult people such as the GOBN, Frank Ferry, myself, and many others, and are warned to stop the attacks, then they get what they deserve. The people they attack are not my friends but I simply abhor their methods and hypocrisy. Both TimBen Boydston and Leon Worden have said horrible things about a whole bunch of people. They have commented on supposed sexual deviations, to name but a few things, under assumed names and accused people of all sorts of underhanded things. They insult many of the same people these guys ask for money etc to fund their projects, campaigns etc. They do not need to substantiate anything they are posting anonymously. In my opinion that makes them hypocrites and cowards. You have something to say, say it but continue to be nasty anonymously at your own risk. Someone will recognize you and then you may have to answer for your unethical behavior and comments.
Both “gentlemen” know that I know who they are. If you want to check out their past postings you will recognize them too. Their personalities “shine” through their postings particularly in their vitriol towards me. If nothing else, maybe all of you posting anonymously to make yourself look good compared to the other person, slander and spread lies, will realize you are not as safe under cover as you think.
I believe Jeff does a great job with this blog. A friend told me about it several months ago. I read and observed for quite some time before chiming in (that’s for you Ferdman). There are a few other anonymous posters I recognize. I have no desire to out them unless they get nasty too.
This site offers at place to expand on a given topic, listen to other viewpoints, and respond to the garbage said when warranted.
I know the truth and so do those who choose to see it. Enough said…
I always post under my own name but see no reason to “out” anyone if they choose to post under an alter name.
To me, wanting to “out” someone is just wanting to “control”.
So, I would say let the names be and quit the slanderous remarks.
Just my 2 cents.
Annette Lucas
Annette Lucas
I will ignore the ironic nature of posts #8/#9 for now…
But I do have a content-related question for BGG, since you are posting under this entry and everyone on SCVTalk seems to agree that content is more important than comment-maker identity. In one of your LTEs, you said that driveway standards have been in place since 1927. Could you tell me what these standards were and who made them (presumably the County of LA as the City of SC didn’t exist?) Thanks.
Since TBB offered to meet with me and I declined I assumed Alan was referring to me.
Also, I think “pseudonym” or “handle” or “nickname” would be better word-choices than “sobriquet,” which implies that everyone knows to whom the assumed name refers.
Wikipedia describes the distinction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sobriquet
Annette: They are not insulting you or telling lies about you.You call it control. I call it holding them accountable for their statements. My remarks are not slanderous, theirs are but you believe what you will. I understand that you are loyal to TBB. I have nothing personal against you Annette but you are making very serious accusations about me. Please stop before this escalates further.
I HeartSCV: Standards have been in place in Los Angeles County since 1927 (Chapter 22.48, Ord. 1494 Ch. 2 Art. 1 § 209, 1927.) regarding how much of your front area can be cemented over (ergo driveways). You can go to the LA County website to find full text.I’m not very good at doing the link thing,sorry. Also, please note: MS. Bonja’s driveway was repoured wider after 1995 per public info photos so 1927 is not the binding ordinance either. We were a city by 1995 and those rules apply. Standards are 10′for single garage or carport, 20′for double garage or carport, and recently updated to include 30′for 3 car garage.
SCVFan: There are many of us insulted by these guys, so your believing it was directed at you is understandable.
Wow, I feel like I am stepping through a mine field here. :-0
To Tim Meyers: Hi, Tim. I received a call this morning about your Senior Center comments here. My friend wanted to know if I had sent you an anonymous letter! ‘Twasn’t me, LOL. If I feel the need to talk to you about anything, I just call you or talk to you here. After more than a dozen years of volunteer service to the Senior Center including chairing and co-chairing many Senior Center wine auctions and organizing and founding the Committee on Aging Charitable Foundation board and serving as Foundation President for a few years, Duane left both Committee on Aging boards about a year (or so) ago.
Tim, I did want to talk to you about you possibly writing something regarding the lack of participation in our parade from our school bands. The schools need to get started now for the parade, so I’ll give you a call this week. Or call me when it is convenient: 255-2695. Pauline.
Tim, as someone who personally experienced a negative consequence as a result of posting under your own name (being removed from the Signal editorial writing crew for how many months?), one would think you would understand quite clearly why some choose to use a “handle.”
As to the back and forth accusations here between BGH and others, I have to take any “outing” of identity with a grain of salt. In the last ten years I have watched with amusement many times while others accused me and fellow posters of posting under multiple names or of being someone we were not.
I think anyone familiar with some of what goes on here would initially assume that posts 8 and 9 above were written by the same person. It is amusing and ironic that one of those people has just spent time “outing” others for this offense. But as Jeff says, there really is no way of assuring that people are who they say they are. Even those who use “real names” could be using someone else’s real name or one that they have made up.
All posters, regardless of the names they use, should be judged by how they conduct themselves, the logic of their arguments and how well they back up their statements with evidence.
The accusations BGH makes against TBB and Leon Worden above are vague and unsupported by any evidence. Making such unsubstantiated accusations under your own name isn’t any more honorable than making them under cover of a pseudonym.
Berta Said…
“I have nothing personal against you Annette but you are making very serious accusations about me. Please stop before this escalates further.”
Berta, I take this as a threat, so I will NOT respond to ANY of your posts period, and even leave SCVTalk for awhile.
Maybe this is a lesson for others too!
Reader Mama: How would you prove you are who you say you are? Oh wait, you use a pseudonym yourself so forget the question.
I know you have to provide an email address when you sign up to post on this blog but don’t know if all email addresses are traceable back. I’m just not that computer savvy. Jeff, can you identify me if I was to post anonymously or conversely can you eliminate any doubt that I post only under my own name? If you can answer either way, please do so here with my full permission. I have nothing to hide so have no reason to post using any another name. As I keep saying, anonymous posters identify themselves by their own comments.
As to the supposed unsubstantiated accusations. Both persons made comments online in their quest to discredit me that only I/they would know as those conversations/interactions/nuancesoccurred only with each of them so it was easy to eliminate any other suspects if I listened carefully, which I did. I would have to relate every single conversation etc and even then you could say “I don’t believe you”. I don’t worry too much about comments regarding honor from people who don’t actually identify themselves. How would I know if you are an honorable person yourself? Do I know and respect you? Or are you someone with an axe to grind? I don’t know the answer to any of those questions now do I. So I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt for now.
Believe whatever you want. I believe people are smart enough to make up their own mind.
Annette: There was no threat implied or otherwise in my comment to you. On the contrary, it was a request that you not continue to make it personal since I have no quarrel with you and understand you are loyal to TBB. This is not junior high where if I have a disagreement with your friend it has to become an issue with you too. You can respond, discontinue reading or whatever you choose to do. It’s your call.
Both persons made comments online in their quest to discredit me that only I/they would know as those conversations/interactions/nuancesoccurred only with each of them so it was easy to eliminate any other suspects if I listened carefully, which I did. I would have to relate every single conversation etc and even then you could say “I don’t believe you”. — BGH
Then why post it? Why descend into the mire of mud slinging when you haven’t a shred of hard evidence to support it? It does nothing to make you appear credible. I do not know you or the two gentlemen with whom you have a dispute. Nor do I have a personal interest in the Bonelli tract dispute. But I do know that someone calling herself Berta Gonzalez-Harper is doing exactly what she is accusing others of doing.
I’m with you on this ReaderMama. I too have seen the lengths people will go to irritate a person they don’t agree with. Frankly it is disgraceful and I will not subject myself to it.
A person’s comments should hold up on their own, regardless of the name it is posted under. After a while, people familiar with the sign-on name will know whether it is worth reading or not.
Tit-for-tat arguments on a blog are rather silly anyway.
I am happy to say that I know NO ONE (at least I don’t think I do) on this site.
However, I post on another using a ‘nickname’ and they thought I was Jeff..hehehe!
Nope, don’t know jeff either!
Berta González-Harper says: December 28, 2009 at 6:35 pm: “Reader Mama: How would you prove you are who you say you are? Oh wait, you use a pseudonym yourself so forget the question.
Berta, I have met Reader Mama, she is a “real” person and posts under Reader Mama. I have also met CC and she, too, is a “real” person who posts under CC. And since I have met them, along with other posters here, I know they are not posting under other names – style of writing being the primary “proof.” As for posters “proving” who they are, geesh, why not just stick to the topics and comments and that way, this blog will not be degraded beyond repair. Everyone should be free to post the way they want to post.
Thanks for the phone call, Tim.
Alright this has gone far enough. All comments are now being held for moderation. That means some of you won’t see your comments posted at all, unless they meet my subjective criteria for being one or all of the following: 1)informative, 2) intelligent, 3)entertaining, 4) useful, 5) interesting.
So if you want to make sure your comment is posted, please try to go by the guidelines above.
Those of you who regularly post comments will see a delay in your comments being approved for the site.
Sorry but that’s the only way I can combat this nonsense about who’s real and who’s fake.
I’m not real, I’m Memorex!
Oh thank you Jeff! This he said, I said, she said, they said, we said, but none of it means what we meant to say or did or wrote was getting out of hand and so boring!
Hi Jeff.
If you are not going to let my post through, please remove it.
Thanks.