Photo Courtesy of Nate Imhoff. Check his blog at www.blazingmonk.com for more great shots
Today I stood in the cold rain for two hours observing 75 Minutemen and Minutewomen. I learned some things. I un-learned some other things. Here’s my observations.
It seemed as if the Minutemen who stormed the SCV in January were on a roll. Bob Kellar never backed down, even when Meg Whitman disowned him and Buck McKeon said he should apologize. They had enlisted several new speakers, including high profile ones like State Senator George Runner, to aid in their cause. They were optimistic that 250+ people would show up at their rally, and they were ready to double down on just about everything they said at the last meeting.
But it didn’t turn out that way.
First of all, our local and out-of-town Minutemen weren’t alone today. They were bested in both turnout and volume by the ANSWER LA immigration activists, who showed off their protesting chops by shouting for their cause in unison and by being mobile.
They shouted the standard ANSWER agitprop “The people, united, can never be defeated!” through their bull-horn. One Angry Minuteman tried to counter that with the awkward and rhythmically-challenged, “We can cross the border illegally!” in an attempt, I guess, to ironically shame them.
Needless to say, the shout didn’t catch on among the largely 50+ year old Minuteman crowd.
The rally itself started quite late, but it didn’t take long for things to warm up. Pastor Audie Yancey, the “illegals are evil” star of the January rally, kicked things off again this time around with a milder invocation.
At least I thought it was milder.
State Senator George Runner (of all people!) didn’t think so, and you can see his animated and heated exchange with Minuteman organizer Frank Jorge in the video below.
As Pastor Yancy went on another tear against illegals and told the protesters to shut up, Runner headed for the exits with his aide in tow. I asked some local Republicans why Runner had left, and the consensus seemed to be that he 1) didn’t like the Pastor telling the protesters to shut up (thereby acknowledging their presence) or 2) the rhetoric was a bit too heated even for his taste.
Runner’s desertion of the Minuteman left Frank Jorge hopping mad:
With Runner out of the picture, I thoguht for sure that Bob Kellar and David Gauny might be having second thoughts about speaking at this rally. I watched them as Jorge made his speech, but they showed no reaction. They were ready to press on even when the high-profile Senator abandoned ship.
Things started to move briskly. Ray Herrera, a veteran, took to the stage and outlined a grand conspiracy for everyone in the crowd. I can’t say I even caught the broad outlines of this theory, but it had something to do with the enduring power of the “Anglo Protestant People,” the Puritans and Pilgrims, World War II and Saipan, tyranny, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck. After invoking all that, he pointed toward the ANSWER activists and said this:
They don’t have the core values, they don’t have a progressive state. They don’t have the courage to stand up in Mexico and fight for what they want.They want to take it from you. I’m going to say it like it is. They want to take it from the white man.
Of course, Herrera immediately recovered from “saying it like it is,” and said that what the ANSWER activists really didn’t understand was that there was no white man in America because all Americans are equal before the law and when push comes to shove, Americans of all races would fight the Japanese in the foxhole together on the beach at Saipan.
Or something.
In any case, he provided some context that made his remarks seem less like a call to arms in defense of the white man’s things, and especially, his women folk (because who wouldn’t want them some fine white women?)
Moving on, it was David Gauny’s turn to speak. Undeterred by Runner’s exit and Herrera’s grand American theory of everything, he started by poking some fun at Kellar. He then said that many had advised him that showing up at the rally would guarantee he wouldn’t be elected and then launched into campaign mode.
His speech was largely unremarkable, though he did channel Steve Lunetta and mention how bad things are in Newhall with regards to day laborers. Funny that he didn’t mention that those men stand out their because we Santa Claritans are hiring them every day.
David, you’ve lost my vote. I hope your appearance before 75 or so anti-illegal immigration activists, most of whom don’t live here, was worth it. I have my doubts.
Bob Kellar was up next and made sure to emphasize that he was speaking on his own behalf. He was proud to say that those of us who wanted him to apologize were going to have to wait a long time. The rest of his remarks were prepared and it’s safe to say he left Cranky Bob Kellar at home in Sand Canyon today. I only wish he had done the same in January. I genuinely liked this man.
Finally, it was Roger Gitlin’s turn to speak.. I’ve gone back and forth on Roger Gitlin on this blog. Sometimes he seems reasonable, even hinting that he supports humane immigration reform. At other times, he tosses his lot in with the crazies like Frank Jorge. Happily, the former showed up today, and he was engaging and lucid and reminded the Minuteman to protest the issue of illegal immigration, not the illegal immigrants themselves. Of course he then went on about illegal alien criminals, but compared to the rest of the speakers, Gitlin was almost someone I could have a conversation with. Almost.
As the rally wore on, I became less interested in recording each speaker. They largely said the same thing. I will say that the black man from South Central who got up and defended Bob Kellar and shouted the word “nigger” several times made me wince (that’s a hell of a thing to hear in downtown Valencia, Nate Imhoff told me), but other than that, I was bored. So I decided to confront Pastor Yancey because his January comments bugged me the most:
Yancey comes off less the racism-justifying preacher of yesteryear and more the confused old man who’s past his prime.
By the way, props to Tony Miano, the SCV street preacher, retired Sheriff’s Deputy and blogger who denounced Yancey and said he was at the rally because “people are here” and not because he agreed with the sentiments. You should check out his blog, where he reflects on Pastor Yancey.
Concluding Thoughts
In the end, I didn’t leave feeling triumphant or beaten down. I left feeling pity for these protesters. One of them mentioned “globalization” and touched on the way the world has changed in the last several decades. In his mind, America should be like it was in the good old days, that mythical time of economic security, harmony and good jobs. That time when a man knew his place in the world, rather than finding himself confused and lost in modern American capitalism’s relentless race to the bottom (and that was before the bailouts!) What difference does it make to the American worker, he seemed to mourn, whether the cheap labor we depend on is in China or on the streets of Newhall? Both are bad for American workers.
This, I remain convinced, is what the anti-illegal immigration movement is really about: Economic insecurity.
I did share one thing with the Minuteman. I am angry. I am very angry that Deputy David March was murdered. I am angry there are illegal immigrants driving without licenses or insurance. I’m angry that the taxpayers foot the bill for an undocumented immigrant’s kidney dialysis at my mom’s unit while an elderly American gentleman struggles getting his insurance company to pay for his. I’m angry that Adrian Avilla, an illegal immigrant, raped several women in Canyon Country a few years ago.
I’m also angry that American companies get fat off the backs of these people and no one stops them.
I’m angry about these things but the difference between me and the Minutemen is that I think the solution is to get illegal immigration under control and provide a path to citizenship for the vast majority of illegal immigrants who come here, work hard, and just want to improve their lives. In that sense, I’m on the side of President Bush who tried to fix this problem in 2006. But his effort died at the hands of the Minutemen.
And unfortunately, they’re not giving up and they’re never going to change their tune.
OMG I loved the little bubble blurbs you added in the video when George Runner realizes what’s going on and decides to leave. Classic.
“Run away sissy man!”
Nice observation Jeff. I share your same feelings of anger. I left the rally full of new emotions and thoughts: some positive some negative.
I didn’t understand the AnswerLA’s plan though. They came. They left. They came back. They left. They hung out under a tree a few yards away. And then they left for good.
No comprendo…
Pingback: SCVTalk.com » Blog Archive » George Runner Walks
Pastor Miano is a true man of God. Can I call Pastor Yancey a false prophet?
Funny that you could not drag Jeff Wilson to a Mayor’s Prayer Breakfast to save his soul, but he has a huge fascination with a preacher from Quartz Hill who is clearly outside the bounds of Christian theology. Preacher Yancy is more a man to be pitted than given attention too.
Once again David Gauny was the voice of reason remarkable or not. Instead of throwing up his hands and saying there is nothing to be done at the local level, he actually has a plan. We need this man on our Council. Not only for this issue, but because he is intelligent, does his homework, and isn’t afraid to back down in an attempt to be ‘popular.’
Although I didn’t listen to all the speeches, the Yancy one was enough to make me yark. I don’t advocate the kind of hate this man has for illegal aliens. I simply want everyone to follow the rule of law and wait their turn to immigrate legally. 1 in 6 of our prisoners is illegal is astonishing (I heard recently from the LA times it was 30%).
In any event, we can not continue the course we are on.
CC
I respectfully disagree. The “voices of reason” including George Runner, were either not there or bailed out as soon as they saw what it was. Dave Gauny is either a befuddled nerd or a slick opportunist who used this to at least get some attention. Otherwise he would have had none up until now and no one in the 3,000 to 4,000 unengaged voters would have even known he was running.
Jeff and Timothy:
Have you both taken your meds today? Arrogant is the only word I can think of when I read both of your posts. Gauny did an outstanding job yesterday. He is bright and articulate and we need him on the City Council.
Thanks for continued coverage of this craziness.
Jeff,
It was nice to finally meet you in person, yesterday. And thank you for your kind words.
Yeah, Gauny really nailed it out of the park!
No condemnation of the pastor, no condemnation of Frank Jorge, instead he shared the stage of both. He’s gone all in with the politics of hate and terror.
He would have reached more SCV voters handing out flyers for two minutes to those in the check out line at Trader Joe’s.
He’s committed political suicide. I expected a speech far more courageous. He’s made of much less than we thought.
I’m shocked! shocked! to read that Save our State was until recently run by a White Separatist.
Tony,
That you for putting Yancey’s comments in the proper context.
While Gauny’s comments are reasonable, the company he keeps is not. But he has found an issue that resonates with some people who will come out and tolerate, if not outright support, some wild people on the far right. I don’t think that is where the center of the SC voting public is, and that is why Sen. Runner left. Runner sized up the speakers and the audience as ‘fringe’ and that’s when he made his exit. IMHO, that is the sound judgment of an experienced politician.
Gauny, neither experienced or exhibiting sound judgment in choosing his allies, is going for a segment of the population who might provide campaign funds, but who won’t be able to put him over the top in the election. If this is what Gauny is like ‘being his own man’, it raises questions about his political judgment. Maybe he is not ready for prime time.
Rocky,
I do believe David will be getting funds from this group.
I do not believe that David is any longer his own man.
I will not say anymore until David has answered an email I sent directly to him.
Jeff, I really appreciate that you went to the rally wrote about what you saw. I agree with what you said in the Concluding Comments. That section really should be a separate post. Thanks to all SCV Talkers who contributed.
Jeff, ND, Mike maybe if you paid a little more attention to Gauny’s speach you’d actually here he denounced any action against individuals but the fight was against the system and enforcing our laws.
At least he stuck to his commitments. If Runner had a spine, he would have stayed and done the same thing and distanced his views, but he left like a stubborn child. He lost my vote over this.
I guess since you guys believe the worst of someone just because of any association, you guys are no better than the illegals in our country that break the laws, rape women and kill people because you are fighting for their amnesty.
I now know why this is a ‘blog’ and not a news source. Your coverage is so slanted and weak. Gauny did a good job and you guys didn’t even recognize it.
I guess by the same token I can call
SCV Guy:
The definition of a blog does not include “reporting the news.”
Here, I made it easy for you: “A blog is an online journal where an individual, group, or corporation presents a record of activities, thoughts, or beliefs. Some blogs operate mainly as news filters, collecting various online sources and adding short comments and Internet links (ex: Daily briefs on SCVTalk). Other blogs concentrate on presenting original material. In addition, many blogs provide a forum to allow visitors to leave comments and interact with the publisher(s).”
Yep. Seems like that’s exactly what SCVTalk does.
And Runner thought this was a Tea Party event. He was going to talk about taxes. Once he figured out what the rally was all about, he bailed because he knew that it would be political suicide to associate with those clowns.
I guessed right that there was only one token person of color in attendance, and he was an invited speaker.
Credibility?
Just crazy, scared, old white people. Good thing I’m not crazy or scared!
As previously stated, I attended the rally yesterday because I believe that citizens gathered on any legitimate issue deserve to be heard. Like you, they also want to hear where our candidates stand on their concerns, so I was happy to speak also.
I won’t repeat my views on illegal immigration here as I made them clear in my speech. However, I was very clear that I will never advocate hate or racism and that I did not agree with the extreme views that a few in their crowd may advocate. I also offered several specific and actionable items that could be implemented at the local level with little or no cost. I am disappointed to hear that all of this was “unremarkable” as I’ve been asked to clarify these points many times on SCVtalk.
I am just as much opposed to extremism as I am to the issue illegal immigration itself. As a candidate, I felt it important to make clear that I will only go as far as supporting the law – and that we must attack people, not process. I did so.
With this in mind, I will also NOT advocate or speak at another rally where Frank Jorge is serving as leader or MC. His comments about Runner and other leaders yesterday were inflammatory, offensive and wrong. Jorge may have some good ideas but they were lost among harsh personal attacks and attempts to incite the crowd to anger. There are many good people in this group but, IMHO, there is no future for the movement unless their members oppose the current approach. Beyond the remarks in my speech, I also made my thoughts known to several key people at the event yesterday.
I do believe that Roger Gitlin was genuinely saddened by the same rhetoric. I can’t speak for Roger but I do believe a schism is forming among this group. They have the attention of the nation and although radical views may have helped at one time, I think there are many who see that this approach must be rejected if real solutions are to be found. Roger Gitlin is passionate and while you may not agree with his views, he is genuinely concerned with the future of our country – he is not a bigot or hater of men.
I do not regret attending yesterday but energies are better served in gatherings where people are more focused on the ISSUES rather than personal attacks. Venomous rhetoric offered up in a rally format will not continue to serve the purposes of this group moving forward. My views on illegal immigration have not changed one iota but I will not visit this group again until a more solution-oriented leader steps forward. When that happens, I also think the attendance will begin multiply over and over.
I hope this clarifies where I stand – thank you for reading.
Pingback: SCVTalk.com » Blog Archive » SOS: Why Santa Clarita? “It’s a good place to come”
What irony: there would be no SOS rally in SCV without the AV’s own Frank Jorge and his posse; the same individual whose pastor scared off George Runner, upset Roger Gitlin, alienated David Gauny was able to bring the noise, but not the mainstream.
Dave, you can’t say I didn’t warn you!
“With this in mind, I will also NOT advocate or speak at another rally where Frank Jorge is serving as leader or MC. His comments about Runner and other leaders yesterday were inflammatory, offensive and wrong. Jorge may have some good ideas but they were lost among harsh personal attacks and attempts to incite the crowd to anger.”
What I don’t get is that you knew this going in. To quote Dennis Green, “They are who we thought they were.”
As a former supporter, I tried my best to warn you against associating with this group. You got the same exact pastor and the same MC as last time. The only thing surprising was the lack of political savvy. You think they’d prune a little of the crazy off the bush when some respectable company came knocking.
How are his comments towards Runner, as classless as they were, a) any worse than what he said in Harrisburg b) any worse than what he said about the President last time or c) come as a surprise.
You and Kellar lent legitimacy to this group, but whatever legitimacy gained on their part, is legitimacy lost by those who lent it.
I agree that Gitlin, as much as I disagree with him, looks like Ted Kennedy compared to this crowd. Neither of you belonged on their stage.
(anyone catch Kellar’s head bowed in prayer during the invocation? What God do you serve that would want you to bow in a prayer that insults His teachings?)
A final note: Jeff, I am sorry to have lost your vote but here’s what you conclude in your article:
”I did share one thing with the Minuteman. I am angry. I am very angry that Deputy David March was murdered. I am angry there are illegal immigrants driving without licenses or insurance. I’m angry that the taxpayers foot the bill for an undocumented immigrant’s kidney dialysis at my mom’s unit while an elderly American gentleman struggles getting his insurance company to pay for his. I’m angry that Adrian Avilla, an illegal immigrant, raped several women in Canyon Country a few years ago.
I’m also angry that American companies get fat off the backs of these people and no one stops them.”
These are my sentiments exactly. So, how and where do people hear, share, and do something about the problem if not for demonstrating? Every movement for change has extreme views in it but if we just denounce the whole group and refuse to engage how do we lead the conversation to a better, more solution-seeking direction. All we wind up doing is saying those “right-wing extremists” and “stupid left-wing nut jobs.” There’s no solution in this either.
This issue is not a political stunt for me – it is a cause I am deeply concerned about. All of our national, state, and local public programs we enjoy –affordable education, public safety, healthcare, etc- will continue to be hurt until we get a grip on this problem. We simply cannot afford to fund the current open border, selective enforcement agenda.
I don’t care about how many people came to the rally or whether I gained or lost votes – the conversation needs to be had and these are my concerns as a citizen. I presented my concerns and I hope they change the course this group taking. If not, I hope a new group will form with a more solution-oriented agenda.
By the way, I arrived late and did not hear the pastor’s remarks that everyone keeps referring to here. Those too were way off the mark.
Mike – you were right. But I don’t regret making the effort. I went, presented some ideas that we could take action on, and rejected the negative tone of some speakers.
But maybe, jut maybe, a few will listen and come forward with a more constructive format in the future. The issues themselves have merit and they are worthy of discussion by our public.
Dave Gauny:
If you are really this clueless and ignorant, then I feel sorry for you. You should have stayed in college. Your self education did you little good.
However, if you are doing this as some kind of slick, cheap way to appeal to the worst fears of the electorate then you are making my blood boil. When you help bring the likes of Frank Jorge and Pastor Yancey into OUR house to foul our nest you should be ashamed.
Once an issue turns to extremism it distracts and hurts the issue it self. The few solutions that were given at this rally would do very little to curb Illegal immigration and would most likely result in lawsuits. Which will again cost our community more money.
I don’t understand why anyone would go to this Rally reading all the research Jeff, Nickeldime and myself have done on these groups?
Tim – listen very closely: I do not regret going to this event. I know exactly what these men said in previous meetings and I NEVER said that I agreed or supported this. Moreover, I did NOTHING to bring them here.
I don’t expect to convert Jorge or the Pastor to new thinking but I do hope to convert some in their group to wake up and understand that this is hurting the cause. I did this by first expressing my shared concern and concluding that we must attack policy and not people. We’ll see but I have done what I felt was my obligation as someone who’s taken a position on this issue.
Leadership’s job is to engage tough issues with extremist views on both sides. There will always be critics who fault-find no matter what direction leadership takes. But whether you agree with my positions or not, I am neither stupid nor manipulative.
BTW… How was Frank Jorges response a surprise?
http://www.blazingmonk.com/2010/02/extremist-frank-jorge-responds/
David Gauny says: ” I did not agree with the extreme views that a few in their crowd may advocate.”
MAY ADVOCATE?!!
You indeed are a politician. A sleazy one at that for trying to pass this tired excuse on us.
Well, IF I said something which MAY have offended someone, then I’m sorry THEY feel that way!
It’s just like that! Dishonest!
FAIL! No vote!
Jesus Christ was criticized for associating with the prostitutes and unsavory characters as I recall. There is something to be said for walking into such a situation and stating that you disagree with the hatred being espoused by some, while sharing other concerns. Politically naive perhaps. But “clueless and ignorant?” No.
Gauny did not bring these people to SCV. He spoke to them. He used the same stage, but I don’t believe he caught racist cooties from doing so.
The more you rant against Gauny, Tim (and I didn’t miss your slam against him in today’s opinion piece in TMS) the more I like him.
not to worry David……the people that left negative comments towards you on this blog do not have the influence over the voters in SCV that they think they have. If they were not worried about you winning this election they would ignore you. Good job!
American Girl says: not to worry David……the people that left negative comments towards you on this blog do not have the influence over the voters in SCV
Wanna bet?
@readermama: great point.
Odd aren’t conservatives all about association? What about Pal’in around with terrorist? Then there is Glenn Beck has made an entire career about associations… Real or imagined.
I told Roger Gitlin this when we spoke on the phone, if he cut out the extemist I would be the first guy in board. I can’t associate with a group led by a man that says there is no middle ground. That is never true.
Dave G,
Who mows your lawn?
To SCV Voter:
I couldn’t steal your money like that….way too easy.
Brian: Okay, I do not agree with some in their crowd who do advocate extreme positions.
Good Question: I mow my lawn. (And yes I am here legally.)
RM: Thank you very much and I am grateful for the thoughtful consideration of what I am saying.
AmGirl – Thank you.
BlazingMonk: As we’ve discussed before, there are many issues where I reject the simple left/right compartmentalizing of complex problems in this country. The problem is that serious issues don’t tend to galvanize a bunch of people who are in the rational middle somewhere. They don’t hold rallies. In fact, there’s really just philosophical debate a lot of the time. So, as I asked at the beginning, what format do we have to bring attention to the problem?
These people are making noise on an issue that needs attention now. Get them working smarter and keep them focused on the issue. Whether or not you agree with my idea for resolution, I believe someone has to engage people that are doing something. There will always be extreme viewpoints in those groups but I see a failure to engage as cowardice, not leadership. Obviously, it’s much easier to point at them, label them all extremists, and do nothing.
Me thinks Gauny would be whistling an entirely different tune if the rally had drawn more potential voters. Distancing yourself after the fact reeks of opportunism. Your presence on the stage and mingling with the “in crowd” lent legitimacy to these nutters. Thanks for that.
Better luck next issue.
On a totally immature side note: Did anyone get a whiff of Frank Jorge? Man, that guy smelled like open ass and Axe body spray! Fitting scent, but I almost puked on his back when walking behind him as I arrived. Blame it on the rain?
GangFang: I spoke my views and distanced myself from the extremism at the event with a speech that was written long before I ever went there. This was my plan when I was first asked to speak several weeks ago.
Also, I have now said repeatedly that I have no regret about speaking to people who gathered on this issue, despite the extreme views of some. What different tune would I be whistling?
Why say that you would never attend another Frank Jorge event just because he did and said what you knew he already says and does?
Mike: Because I share the concern of the root issue and the people that are gathered to do something about it. My belief is that most in that crowd want action, not extremism. Not too many were clapping when Jorge was making his remarks. And the people who want action are worth talking to.
All of my efforts on G&L and other projects have been accomplished by meeting a few people at a time, and then connecting to others who connect to others. Eventually you find the right people real movement starts to occur – but you have to be there and talking and learning.
If Frank Jorge doesn’t change, someone else will come out of this group and get it on track. His approach got them on the map but they need a different plan to move forward. My belief is staying message with a rational approach will bring out the right leaders who can deliver the right change. If I want to lead on the issue, it is my job is to find them and I know of no other way.
American Girl:
Maybe we don’t influence the voters, but we certainly influence David Gauny, because he spends a lot of time and effort responding to our criticisms in his beige, referee way.
By the way, I did not intend to convey that I want to lead this group in any way… but I do actively try to find people who offer thoughtful ideas and energy to addressing the problem. Again, I think that’s what leaders should be doing on this and many other issues.
Tim, As with the SOS group, I only reply for the benefit of the people who want to get past the rhetoric and on to the real issue.
I’ve stopped including you in this group. You are an extremist and your comments are pretty much always inflammatory these days.
I say again, the laws are on the books and the problem is enforcement.
What have our elected officials, Kellar, Runner and McKeon, done to enforce the laws? Yet they talk trash to like minded extremists.
The problem is political will. Or the lack of it,
Dave Gauny:
Only extremist when it comes to you and your candidacy.
You (Tim) are an extremist and your comments are pretty much always inflammatory these days.
Really Mr. Guany, Tim Meyers “extremist”? This from a person who up until a month ago could only distinguish himself from the other members of the Council by his position on the Hospital, until an issue completely under the rader and outside the purview of the Council arises and you embrace it for all the opportunistic value it brings. Pander to the Minutemen and Rodger Gitlins, show up at that dispicable “rally” and Tim Meyer is the extremist?
I’m not calling you an extremist, however resorting to call others who differ from your opinion as an extremist is certainly rich.
Fair enough, SCV Voter. I meant this tongue-in-cheek as Mr. Myers’ and I have been exchanging barbs for sometime.
I mean, when Myers’ suggest (as he does above) that I am somehow responsible for bringing “the likes of Frank Jorge and Pastor Yancey into OUR house to foul our nest” I can’t help but feel like this is a bit extreme.
Other attempts to tear me down have gone further, including his effort to tie me to the global financial meltdown in 2008: http://www.the-signal.com/news/archive/3490/
So, please forgive me… it’s not that I disagree with Myers’ viewpoint, I just think he makes stuff up to discredit me – and he uses really extreme stuff to do it.
I am the same person whether running for council or not and I will stand on what I believe. I don’t agree that illegal immigration is something better left to someone else in some other layer of government and the fact that this all happened now is not some grand plan I crafted. There really is no play here – I’m just a guy who’s really upset at what I see happening in our government and I want to do something about it. There really isn’t much more to it than that.
David: You did stay on topic, and not wander down the Jorge path TOO much. I give you that. But I still say that your mere presence at the rally was observed as an endorsement.
As Mike stated: “Why say that you would never attend another Frank Jorge event just because he did and said what you knew he already says and does?” Attempting to distance yourself after the fact doesn’t add up. Frank said what he has always said. You knew the pot you were climbing into. It’s a little too late to complain that the water is too hot.
It kinda seemed you were there merely to remind people to vote for you. If there had been more potential voters there, and not ones with such wacked views holding American flags suspended on “waternoodles”…I think you may have backed away from the mic to preserve your integrity. Guess you thought that since the attendance was so damn weak that not much damage could come from talking the stand. Oopsy.
Just my observation as someone familiar with the historical and cultural background of pastor Yancy worldview.
In a strange roll reversal, Gauny’s critics here, who are for the most part of the progressive demo side, are applying the same “secondary separation” principles to Gauny’s participation in this little rally as the fundamentalist pastor would when criticizing some “evangelical” pastor for speaking on the same platform with a Catholic priest. His presence causes confusion and gives the impression he favors ecumenism.
It’s amusing in a way.
Secularists have their dogmatic, unyielding fundamentalist principles as well. And all of this vitriol toward a politician coming from a group who generally pride themselves as being open minded and tolerant.
The mind boggles at how you all would have reacted if this had been a pro-gay marriage rally with wack-a-doodle activists in leather screeching at the audience.
SCV Voter, does your vote count more than mine? I doubt it. David Gauny is the reasonable voice here.
I don’t judge people by who know, but what deeds they do. I am so happy to find SOMEONE willing to talk about the real issues in this City, State, Country rather than the talking heads that spend their time cutting ribbons and naming streets after themselves.
The fact that Tim continues to make personal attacks makes him sound more like Yancy and not anything like a reasonable voice.
After the thrashing that you guys are serving Gauny it is no wonder that our political leaders won’t declare a position or lift a hand to rectify a problem. Oh no, we wouldn’t want to piss someone off!
One last thing. It seems that Tim’s choice is one for another ineffective leader like Johnny Pride. Right Tim, your endorsement matters…LOL
A question for Berta – Perhaps you can explain to me why, if Bob Kellar did not violate the city’s code of ethics when he didn’t annonce that he was not speaking on behalf of the City at the first rally, why did he clearly do so this time?
Dave Gauny is not the reasonable person here. He wants to kick illegal alien renters (and their children) out on the street, essentially making them homeless.
He won’t say it like steve lunetta does, but I bet he wouldn’t be opposed to rounding them up from the street too.
Ahhh Fred…you know, I like you and your blog, but you’re just so hot on the equivocation angle, you tire me. You have no argument in favor of creationism, so you say evolution is a religion. You think global warming is false, so you also call it a religion.
And now you equivocate when a pastor gets up there and says clearly racist things, even when another Christian (Tony Miano) calls it like it is and condemns that man.
Guess who I’m more likely to listen to?
Can somebody please check on Berta and Cash to see if they are o.k.?
I miss their funny comments.
Yeah, where’s Berta and Cash?
Sleeping in their troll cave.
Hello all. Nice to know you missed me. I spent the remainder of the weekend with grandkids and great grandkids having fun.
I attended yesterday’s rally and met a few scvtalk posters. Nice to meet you guys. I did not agree with some of the comments of Mr. Yancy or Mr. Jorge but have to say George Runner knew perfectly well it was not a Tea Party meeting. If you look at the photos taken of him, he is standing right in front of placards saying “no amnesty”. In addition, I approached him there and talked to him about the issue of illegal immigration and my recent letter to him on the topic well before the actual meeting began. Sorry George but you are not being forthcoming. If you really objected to the pastor asking the protesters to quiet down, you had the opportunity to make comment at the microphone instead of bolting, as you did.
I will also add that the protesters advocating for open borders and amnesty were the ones who were aggressive, using bullhorns, and at one point marched over to where Bob Kellar was standing by himself. I saw them start in his direction and very intentionally walked over with a legal immigrant friend and positioned ourselves between them and Bob. They walked around us…They made a few more rounds and then left shortly thereafter as it started to rain. THEY WERE LOOKING FOR TROUBLE which none of you observers mentioned. By the way, before the event started, I drove by with my windows down and not one Minuteman, SOS, or other “Anglo” person harassed this Hispanic.
I think David Gauny did a great job of clearly stating his concerns with the issue of illegal immigration, making sure people did not interpret his attendance as an endorsement of the more radical attendees, and talking about things that can be done at the City of Santa Clarita level. If community leaders will not discuss this issue and come forward with solutions that can be implemented, then who will?
I do think this group needs leaders who are less offensive. Yancy, Jorge, and Herrera are too caustic for most people. They lose supporters who may sympathize with their cause but are not in agreement with their habit of insulting people. That includes me. Perhaps, another group with more moderate leaders will emerge. Roger Gitlin seems like a reasonable person. In fact, he has said he would support amnesty. In that respect, he is more moderate that I. I do not support amnesty. I support deportation with a streamlined application and approval process for those persons who meet all of the criteria for legal entry. Amnesty rewards unlawful behavior. Any parent understands that you do not reward behavior you do not want repeated and that it is important to be consistent. We cannot expect anyone from any country to patiently wait in line for their approvals to enter legally while at the same time saying “no problem, you can stay” to those who chose not to follow the rules.
To all of you who continue to insist that anyone attending a rally such as this one must be in agreement with all comments and actions of everyone else in attendance is ludicrous. I do not agree with everyone attending City Council meetings, Planning Commission meetings, or any of the other multiple meetings I attend. You probably do not either so let us get real here folks.
I have said many times before and continue to insist that unless more reasonable people discuss and resolve these issues, more radicals on both sides of the issue will join together and things will deteriorate to the point everyone, legal and not, will suffer.
Either enforce the law or work to change it.
Does the City of Santa Clarita election law allow for a “candidate write in” on the ballot? If so I think I found my third vote.
Berta… Why the clipboard?
Ahhh Fred…you know, I like you and your blog, but you’re just so hot on the equivocation angle, you tire me. You have no argument in favor of creationism, so you say evolution is a religion. You think global warming is false, so you also call it a religion.
Jeff, I wish you would come on over and leave comments. I would certainly enjoy the dialog on these issues. My brilliant readers will smack you around gently.
And now you equivocate when a pastor gets up there and says clearly racist things, even when another Christian (Tony Miano) calls it like it is and condemns that man.
Jeff, I agree with you and Tony, the guy is a racist puke. I was merely pointing out a similar militancy on your side as you would clearly find on “pastor” Yancy’s side. It’s just ironic.
I for one am sick and tired of Mike (and the regular crew) criticizing David Gauny for his attendance at this rally.
Mike was S I L E N T when the close association between Rev. Jeremiah Wright (Not God Bless America…God %$#@ America) and Father Pfleger was exposed for the world to see during the presidential campaign.
As I watched the rallt on Saturday , I kept asking myself Where would Obama Be ? The answer was crystal clear, standing with the malcontent agitators who want to transform America and ignore the values which made this a great country.
You go David Gauny-be strong and stand by your beliefs. Give the electotrate a choice on April 13.
Don’t hurt yourself stretching like that Crumb.
Show us where Wright said these things with the President in attendance. The right continues to play the card but can show NO proof Obama tolerated this in his and his familys’ prescence. The disassociation was also quickly done when Wright went whack. It might be a mental illness among his generation preacher, same as Yancey.
As to those listening to Yancey and shouting support and Amen, well, that is giving approval for the hatefilled diatribe this man of the cloth is spewing.
Isn’t it a coincedence how all the most radical groups wrap their crap in the flag and in religious overtones. Open your history books and see if you can find others who do the same. It shouldn’t take long!
I will give Gauny props for posting his feedback here. I still think this should have been a no show event. You don’t want to be associated with these types unless you’re Kellar it seems.
He thrives on the bigotry and stone throwing.
Great point crumb. It is all about the party with these people. Imagine if Gauny had said Obama was a light skinned no negro dialect candidate? Yeah I know I cant stop laughing either.
I am sure tim myers et al will be campaigning against that racist
Obama was certainly aware of the controversial background of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Wright was not invited to stand along side Obama when he announced for president.
When first confronted with the video and audio statements of Wright Obama did not condemn him, he stood along side.
It was only later that Obama threw his pastor under the bus with his grandmother.
Why would Wright warrant a place on the podium? Is America a theocracy?
How much do you follow your priest, reverand, et al.? Not at all? Not many do now, do they?
Berta’s epic paragraphs return!! Answer the Monk, Berta. What was with the clipboard?
Also, there WAS some harassment of drivers at stoplights. Albeit ineffective and laughable. The nice old man that starts in one of ND’s videos that calls the protestors “human debris”? I sat next to him as a car rolled down their window at a stoplight. The two people inside merely asked what was going on, but the fact that their skin was brown was enough for Mr. Get Off My Lawn, as he went off! He threw out the obligatory “Go back to Mexico!” but then sweetened the pot with “You are useless garbage!! Get out of here NOW!!” and my favorite “You don’t belong here and neither does your car!!”. Huh?? I told him he shouldn’t judge all cars so harshly.
The rest of your comment was so predictable, I already forgot it when I thought of it yesterday.
Yeah Berta, what were you doing there exactly? It appeared you were helping to organize the rally.
You never disclosed that but if it’s true, it definitely adds some perspective to your posts here.
Attempting to sell some surplus Girl Scout cookies maybe?
“I did share one thing with the Minuteman. I am angry. I am very angry that Deputy David March was murdered. I am angry there are illegal immigrants driving without licenses or insurance. I’m angry that the taxpayers foot the bill for an undocumented immigrant’s kidney dialysis at my mom’s unit while an elderly American gentleman struggles getting his insurance company to pay for his. I’m angry that Adrian Avilla, an illegal immigrant, raped several women in Canyon Country a few years ago. ”
Excellent statement!
Hi guys. Too bad the rest of you did not introduce yourselves since you obviously recognized me. Since Blazing asked a legitimate question without insults, I will answer. The clipboard was to gather signatures for those interested in supporting or wanting more information on David Gauny’s candidacy for City Council. I have been quite clear that I support David Gauny and have given reasons why multiple times so will spare you “regulars” the long version. David Gauny is fair, intelligent, reasonable, a good listener, does not hide from his detractors, gives clear thorough answers without prevarication, and offers real solutions not just more “political speak”. In my humble opinion, he would make an excellent Council member.
BGH – Another Question..
You seemed to really think Ted Hayes was funny, were you laughing at him or something else?
Oh, one more thing, if I were involved in organizing such a rally I would insist speakers check their egos before taking the microphone, sign a no cussing/insult clause, or I would personally cut them off at the microphone, free speech or not. The rally should have been about the ISSUE not about who was a bigger jerk. If they want more support for their cause, they have to rein in the nasty remarks. I tried to speak to Mr. Herrera at this rally regarding some comments he made at a City Council meeting, which I took exception to, directed at a black woman in the front row of said meeting. I apologized to the woman because I did not want her to take away the impression all Hispanics agree with his ignorant comments. He was not interested in discussing the issue with me.
There is a group on the internet, which seems in line with my stance but I think it is inactive or defunct. I have refrained with aligning myself with any of these groups because they do not stay on point and too many egos are involved. As I said perhaps, a new more moderate group will emerge to address this issue.
Blazing: I did think some of Mr. Hayes comments were funny…
For those seeking extra credit, video has been posted of the brief moments of interaction between the two protester groups, including AnswerLA’s march into SOS territory. Scroll past the previously posted “interview” montage for the raw footage.
Your thoughts on his use of the N word?
If TM is against Gauny then David has my vote!
Blazing: Mr. Hayes used the “N” word to make the point that he was called that word 4 times in his entire life by “Anglos” but over 100 times in 1 day by people like the group from AnswerLA.
I guess they can accuse Mr. Kellar and others of being racists but somehow have immunity when they make clearly racists comments.
So Context makes it ok to shout that word from a amplified system in the heart of our city?
@Monk: is it ok for half the rappers to use the ‘N’ word?
Yes, context is important, it’s required for proper communication. If people could stop thinking so shallow they’d get it.
But PC has destroyed the very fabric of free speech in our country and I commend honorable people like David Gauny and Bob Kellar and Glenn Beck who risk it all to be real and communicate on the real issues.
Reposting from above:
A question for Berta – Perhaps you can explain to me why, if Bob Kellar did not violate the city’s code of ethics when he didn’t announce that he was not speaking on behalf of the City at the first rally, why did he clearly do so this time?
Don’t change the subject SCVguy… does context make it ok for Ted Hayes to shout the “N” word from an amplified system in the heart of our city?
Don’t give me the PC argument it isn’t considered being PC to not call a black person a “N” word.
My house growing up was as conservative as they come and that word was unacceptable under and circumstance.
under and circumstance = under any circumstance.
@Monk:I believe I did address your question and didn’t change the subject at all. I provided your with a thought provoking question in the hopes that would be able to understand that “YES” context is important. For example:
“I was called a ‘ni****’ as a child growing up is much different than ‘your are a filthy ‘ni****’ are two very different things.
Using the “N” word should not be taboo in the right context and removing the word from our vocabulary does nothing but stifle the history and negative meaning. Why would we want to do that? It’s a shame people have to be so afraid of words these days and even in the correct or positive context. It’s not as black and white as you are portraying.
It was unexpectable in my house too, my mother would have back handed me for the use if the word, but not in the context if a story.
For clarification on the first amendment, the freedom if speech does give anyone the right to use this word and in any context they choose. It’s their right. While I don’t condone it, I would never tell anyone they could not use it either. THAT’S UNAMERICAN!!
No SCVguy you threw up a Red Herring and I am not biting.
Do you think the people sitting in their car care to hear him yelling the “N” word through a sound system?
What about he parents that might have to now explain what that word means and why some moron is yelling in public?
What about how it looks for our city?
Ted Hayes belief that some how it was illogical that he could be racist was just plan wrong. No speaker focused more on race then Ted Hayes, he felt entitled to referred to people by their race rather then their names. Most of the time he got their names wrong when he did try to refer to them by their names…
People do have the right freedom of speech to say whatever they like… they don’t however have the right to amplify it and shout profanity / racist slurs from county property in the middle of our city. They had a permit but not a permit to project hate speech.
Just because people are easily offended doesn’t mean a people should go out of their way to offend people like Ted Hayes, Pastor Yancy and Frank Jorge did.
blazingmonk does have a point.
It’s also notable this was in front of a library.
You are correct Blaze. This isn’t the first time I’ve heard public display of the N word by a black man (person of color to be freaking PC). I had a friend years ago who would refer to himself and other mutual friends in that text. It wasn’t meant to be critical, demeaning or anything other than freindly reparte’. The word, even in that context, still makes me uneasy.
Vince: question answered previously ad nauseam. I am sure Bob made it crystal clear so you would not have something to talk about for another month.
Blazing: If Mr. Hayes chooses to use that or any other word in order to make his point in reference to himself, which you seem to ignore, that is his right.
I personally would not use it but then again I am not black. Mr. Hayes probably would not use beaner, chili chocker, wetback, night swimmer, etc but I certainly have in relating what others have called me from the Anglo side and I have also repeated Malinche, racist, coconut, sell out, etc when describing what folks from the illegal side have called me. Do I like any of the slurs? No! Are they a reality? Yes. We cannot remove every word from our conversations in order to please whomever.
Mr. Hayes was making a point. I got it.
So BGH if he choose to use profanity would you also have no problem with that? He has freedom of speech after all.
I think it is funny you say… “We cannot remove every word from our conversations in order to please whomever.”, especially when you are the first to whine about what I have said in the past. I would suggest that you decide on a position and keep it.
We do not have Freedom of Speech in every circumstance, we can’t go on the radio or tv and use whatever language we choose. The same applies to this situation, they didn’t have a permit that allowed them to amplify hate speech into the streets of Santa Clarita. I think it is most telling that you found his speech funny… Aside from his inability to call people by their names and his use of racist terms, I found his speech to be most illogical and Random. Makes sense that he received 2% of the votes when he ran for office, apparently I am not the only one who thought the guy is a moron.
Blazing says: I think it is funny you say… “We cannot remove every word from our conversations in order to please whomever.” especially when you are the first to whine about what I have said in the past. I would suggest that you decide on a position and keep it.
My position has always been the same Nate. Please pay attention. I believe in freedom of speech even if and when I disagree with the content. I do believe in the right of a snot nosed kid to insult people simply for his entertainment but I do not have to give you the respect of engaging in discussion with you when you do that. When you wish to have a discussion and ask legitimate questions of me, I engage. When you simply want to throw out insults, I am not interested. Is it clear now?
@Monk: That’s right, no debate for you. You can’t handle it when you can’t argue the point or the tables are reversed.
@ND: Monk has no point other than he wants limited freedom of speech.
While I don’t condone these words, I also do not believe I have the right to sensor them.
If I was there and my children heard those words and asked (although I’d already be explaining it to them before they had a chance to ask) I would see that as a great opportunity to PARENT. I guess that’s the difference. I see the glass half full and identify opportunities, not stomp on them.
I didn’t ask if you believe in freedom of speech… everyone says they believe in that. The problem comes in practice.
Do you think people should be able to say WHATEVER they want regardless of the situation? In short, Are you against ALL Censorship?
SCVguy – I don’t fall for your Logical Fallacies… bring up Hip-Hop artist is an entirely different subject and irrelevant to this topic as much as you would like to twist it to fit your purpose. That is called bringing up a “Red Herring”, you can’t debate unless you frame something the way you want.
Americans have freedom of speech which really equates to freedom of thought, Ted Hayes can say whatever he likes in conversation. There is a problem when you hook up sound equipement and start spoating off in public.
I have an issue with using power from the county which is paid for by the public to spread hate speech.
There is also an issue with sound ordinances, which means someone shouldn’t be able to blast hip-hop music with profanity and racist slurs so everyone in the public is forced to listen.
It is entirely different problem that this racist rhetoric was given in our community by an outsider brought in by another outsider since Roger Gitlin is running away like a coward from his rally he pumped up for a month.
That is the same Roger Gitlin who wrote letters and called the Signal trying to get my column pulled from the Signal… hmmm Freedom of Speech argument? Actually no… I don’t have freedom of speech to publish whatever I want in the Newpaper.
Really Blazingmonk? It wasn’t clear enough for you?
SCVGuy:
How many kids do you have? What ages are they?
I don’t want my 4 and 6 year old kids, who were in the Valencia library that day, to hear that word in any context. Not yet – when they are at least at the age of reason, I will have the discussion in the proper context. Kids have a way of repeating words that are new to them. Imagine the worst – they start repeating it at school and it furthers the usage from there.
The library opened for business at 10am on 2/27. The fact that Ted Hayes was in shouting distance from the entrance (much less on a PA system) using the n word multiple times is notable.
For you to say that the use of that word is an opportunity to teach — especially at this young age — is laughable.
Come on ND these guys believe in 100% uncensored society… means sex, violence and profanity on Radio, TV or a billboard.
If your your kids see some hot man on man during prime time TV… it is a great time to teach them about Gays.
Quit being such a stick in the mud.
Free FUCKING speech for all. LOL
SCVGuy: I almost missed your write in “vote” comment. Thanks…
Boy would that give Blazing, Mike, Gangfang and a few others a stroke!!!!
Blazing: I recall Navigator and myself having asked you to refrain from using the word p@$$* several times in past posts, among other offensive words, so it is striking that you are now the one making an issue of Mr. Hayes and his comments.
ND: while I believe your kids are wonderful little tikes, they have unfortunately probably already heard many “bad” words at school, with friends, on TV, and through other means. I know my 3-year-old great grandson, who is of mixed Black/Caucasian/Chumash (Native American) race and Hispanic ethnicity has already heard the “n” and “f” words among others. They most likely are already aware of words they should not repeat. I have already talked about these and other “bad” words with him. If not yet, at the appropriate time you will have that conversation with your kids and explain to them that with freedom of speech comes personal responsibility. Over the din of traffic and bullhorns, I doubt anyone’s comments were heard at a distance, particularly inside the library building but if you are not sure ask your children what they heard and as a responsible parent take it from there. I wish we could protect all children from the ugly things in life but we simply cannot. Like SCV Guy said, that is where good parenting comes into the equation.
BGH,
I’m admittedly being a bit melodramatic.
The word makes be bristle, that’s all. Perhaps more so than any other.
Mrs Navigator spent countless hours editing VHS tapes when our girls were little even though their little friends would blurt out the non-repeatable words. I always got, “daddy, we hear it in school all the time.” My response was always, “maybe so, but you don’t hear it from me so I don’t want to hear it from you.”
@Monk: you are wrong about freedom of speech, its in all forms, verbal and print. Yes there are rules, but none were broken at the rally and I do not believe the City’s noise ordinance was broken, I saw the sheriff car in the parking lot monitoring the rally, they would have come over and shut them down if they violated any laws or their permit.
If The Signal doesn’t have the journalistic integrity to publish your words, then they are upholding YOUR freedom of speech. But they may have rules of their own that you will have to follow, that’s also business and a bit different, if they are not taking your civil rights away from you. And they aren’t because you can go have your work published somewhere else, YOU have the choice to leave and/or publish your own words, just as Jeff has done here with SCVTalk.
Now, there are rules, of course, the FCC (ah-hem, a gov’t agency) but don’t get me started there ….
@ND: I am happy to play. I have three children, 15, 12 and 6. We used to have an appt in San Francisco and when my oldest son was 6 years old he saw two men kissing on the corner. He asked why they were kissing. While I didn’t get into any deep conversation about the birds and the bees, I did explain enough in context that he could understand and also shared my values and God’s values on the matter. Guess what, I paved a path for future communication on the topic and build a bond with him that he knew he could come back to me and talk about anything. OPPORTUNITY! CHALLENGE! SUCCESS!
To think that you believe your children are not old enough to be able to have a conversation even at 4 and 6 about life is not at all laughable to me, but gives me sorrow. Give your children more credit than that, they know much more and are much smarter than you think.
All your other points – again I turn to parenting. It works.
* Did I make post 100 on this thread??
ND: all decent people, as I am sure you are, abhor all slurs based upon ethnic background, gender, race, religion, etc. but not talking about it does not make it go away.
Educating all of our children to base their opinion of others based upon the content of their character and not the color of their skin, as Martin Luther King so eloquently stated, is our future.
“I recall Navigator and myself having asked you to refrain from using the word p@$$* several times in past posts, among other offensive words,”
Good point why are you trying to censor my free speech while giving Ted Hayes a free pass?
I didn’t take a bullhorn and shout profanity at pass cars?
“They most likely are already aware of words they should not repeat.”
So children know not to say those words… but a grown man thinks because he is black he can’t be racist and can say whatever he wants.
“I doubt anyone’s comments were heard at a distance, particularly inside the library building”
I can tell you someone at work told me they drove by when Ted Hayes was speaking and heard some of his rhetoric, I told him he missed the most offensive parts.
“I wish we could protect all children from the ugly things in life but we simply cannot.”
ND at least she agrees that Ted Hayes speech was ugly… now if we could get an explanation why she thought it was so funny he was using such words.
I don’t disagree with anything SCV Guy or BGH have said.
I agree that adversity is an opportunity to teach, at any age – but again, it was an irresponsible use of language by Mr. Hayes. Childhood and innocence are precious. One can’t overstate the impact of jading a kid early on.
Blazing: you are perhaps intentionally misinterpreting my words. I never said Mr. Hayes words were offensive. They may have offended you but did not offend me as I understood context, motivation, and point being made. Just as I very clearly understand the context, motivation and point being made when you post comments on this site. Do us both a favor and do not try to put words in my mouth.
@Monk: I missed this question, “Do you think people should be able to say WHATEVER they want regardless of the situation? In short, Are you against ALL Censorship?”
I am against all censorship of any kind if its a violation of someone’s civil liberties and the 1st amendment.
@Navigator: I think editing VHS tapes is a little over board. You were not “saying” those words, the actors (or whom ever) were. Maybe they shouldn’t have watched them at all?
@ND: Its time for drinks. We agree!
I agree with you that Mr Hayes was wrong and I too think innocence is precious. But I still wont tell someone what they can and can not say, unless they are in my house, that’s I guess where its different
I would simply turn to my children and say, “You hear those words, those are words of a man who has difficulty expressing himself in other more constructive ways.”
Oh OK… Berta perhaps if you understood the context of why I used the word Pussy maybe you wouldn’t have been offended and wouldn’t have wanted to censor me.
BGH said “They most likely are already aware of words they should not repeat.”
So based on what you said here do you think the N word is something children should repeat? Or can children use it freely if it is in the proper context?
“I am against all censorship of any kind if its a violation of someone’s civil liberties and the 1st amendment.”
What censorship doesn’t violate someone’s civil liberties and 1st amendment rights?
“Just as I very clearly understand the context, motivation and point being made when you post comments on this site.”
Wow… all knowing. I wish I was so powerful.
I read in the Signal that if David Gauny gets elected to the Council then he will introduce an ordinance to ban landlords from renting to illegal immigrants.
I dont think this will have much effect as a federal judge in 2007 ruled this unconstitutional as well as denying business permits to businesses who hire illegals. The City is Hazelton, PA. Also, a number of other laws enacted by other cities in the US have been struck down.
Judges cite that cities cannot infringe on the US COnstitution that gurantees to every person in the US whether legal or not. Also many judges cite that Cities do not have regulation powers to restrict illegals.
Gauny, while your intentions might be well, if you intoduce an ordinace like this, the City will be tied up in legal challenges and will never be enforced and more waste of our tax dollars.
After just a couple of minutes of researching, I found that California has outlawed cities from requiring landlords to check immigration status.
Here is an article snippet from 2007:
“Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed landmark legislation Thursday prohibiting local governments from requiring landlords to inquire or report on the immigration status of tenants.
The bill, AB 976, was originally sponsored by a Long Beach-based landlord organization upset about efforts by cities to punish landlords refusing to evict or report illegal immigrant renters or potential renters.
“Landlords are not deputies of the federal immigration program, it’s not our job,” said Nancy Ahlswede, CEO of the nonprofit Apartment Association of California Southern Cities.
The full article can be read here:
http://democrats.assembly.ca.gov/members/a58/Newsroom/Articles/20071011AD58AR01.aspx
It doesnt look good that Mr. Gauny is proposing ordinances when they are against the law in California. I found this in a matter of minutes. This shows me that Mr. Gauny is not ready to be a councilmember because his actions could be costing the City millions in legal challenges if elected.
Linda quit researching and sounding reasonable…
Berta,
I would have to guess that if a person spent the whole weekend with you (like your grandkids and great grandkids do) they would hear these “N” and “F” words coming from other family members when they are talking to you. I wonder if your 3-year-old great grandson uses these words when he is trying to communicate something to you.
Blazing: I am at least apparently capable of READING words as written without embellishing them and HEARING words as spoken and in the context they are intended. You seem to have a problem with this but maybe you just need a few more years of practice. Another benefit of maturity perhaps?
Sam: I will not even dignify your ignorance and stupidity…
I know Berta you are apparently all knowing…. As you know my thoughts and feelings.
You are also the only person allowed to throw the insults…
Amazing how the biggest complainer is the biggest offender… Who would have thought.
A slight correction in the interest of accuracy…the serial rapist in Canyon Country has the name of Adriano Arellano.
There should not be a pathway to citizenship for any immigrant who came to this country illegally. Citizenship is precious and should not be given to those who broke the law to cut in line.
Your thoughts and feelings are easy to discern, Nate. You are a one-note band, kid.
If and when you want to engage in a respectful discussion, we will talk again otherwise go talk to Sam. Bye bye…
“There should not be a pathway to citizenship for any immigrant who came to this country illegally. Citizenship is precious and should not be given to those who broke the law to cut in line.”
Well that settles it.
Berta you next to Phil Ellis you are the most disrespectful person I have encountered here.
Examples just in this thread.
“You are a one-note band, kid.”
“I do believe in the right of a snot nosed kid to insult people simply for his entertainment ”
“You seem to have a problem with this but maybe you just need a few more years of practice. Another benefit of maturity perhaps?”
You want respect? You better give it… Other wise cut the prissy BS.
Berta is this the way talk to your family and friends? Please be honest.
If I see you and your grandkids around town is it o.k. to say the “N” and “F” words like Mr. Hayes does?
What about if you are stopped at a red light with the windows rolled down?
@Monk: You are too much. You always slant the table your way.
@Linda: while I commend your “couple of minutes researching” it takes a bit more than that. Yes, you are correct in the actions taken so far, it doesn’t mean someone can continue to fight and find other means. Or do you prefer people roll over and play dead on issues that are important to them?
The true facts are that our City Council has plenty they can do, but chooses not to for votes. At least Gauny is trying to do something.
@Sam, grow up. You should at least realize that our fight for freedom of speech allows you to be a jerk. You are about as fun as a big fart in a hot car in the summer with the windows rolled up.
Vince: question answered previously ad nauseam. I am sure Bob made it crystal clear so you would not have something to talk about for another month.
Wrong answer Berta. He clearly did as he was advised to do since he so wrongfully broke the city’s code of ethics as it is clearly written at the first rally – as I have posted. Why do you, only defend the city of santa clarita when it suits you????? He violated the code and he NEEDS to be punished for doing so, and no I won’t stop until the City Council and YOU admit you are either wrong or being paid off by him or his backers.
C’mon people, why aren’t any of you going after this? I have posted the Code of Ethics and he was in clear violation of it and the City has yet to sanction him! This whole “proud racist” thing is an obvious ruse to make you all forget! Wake up people. Wake up Berta!
Vince, let it go it is a witch hunt.
blazingmonk: what do you mean by witch hunt?
City of Santa Clarita Code Of Ethics
Secton 12 / Advocacy
When presenting their individual opinions and positions, covered persons shall explicitly state they do not represent their body or the City of Santa Clarita, nor will they allow the inference that they do.
SCV Guy: “Sam” is not Sam, if you get my drift, but rather a coward I recognize who does not have the “c*j*n*s” to say this garbage using his real name.
Blazing: I generally respect everyone unless by their own actions they lose my respect. You claim to be a bright fellow, figure it out…
Vince: Yawn…night!
What gave you the impression that I aspired to gain your respect? Don’t flatter yourself.
I was simply pointing out just one of many hypocrisies. The one whining about respect is the one engaging in all the mudslinging…
The one person that has complained about my speech .. makes excuses for offensive speech she likes claiming freedom of speech.
What can I expect from someone that believes racial slurs shouted on public street is humorous.
@DavidGauny: Help us be heard and demand Congress complete this job right and refund this project.
When November comes around, be vocal and pull any enforcement for Congressmen McKeon, Senator Runner, Assemblyman Smyth and Meg Whitman if they don’t demand Congress finish this job.
We’ve been cheated:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5RPS_iTNiw
@Linda: see what a little effort can do?
Vince: Yawn…night!
Glad it’s such a joke, Berta – why don’t you explain to me how it WASN’T a violation of Santa Clarita’s code of ethics? Or have a someone who knows since you apparently don’t – you haven’t offered one good argument yet…it’s just always that he didn’t, let it go, he did the right thing, yada yada yada.
Actually, if memory serves me, you said that you have read the code of ethics and there was no such violation. Well, I proved otherwise. Were you just lying on Kellar’s behalf? I’ll stop once I’m convinced to do so.
I have to say most of the posts on here are laughable. Many politicians wanted to turn this into a political event for their own elections. ANYONE who thinks Frank Jorge is an “extremist” is an absolute RETARD and has their head buried so far in the sand that they have NO CLUE what is really going on in America and how the average American feels. The “Tea-Party” movement is about “Angry Americans”. Most politicians….especially men like Mr.Runner, and McKeon are bathed in mediocrity. They stand for NOTHING, they do NOTHING, except grand stand at any event they think they can advance their political carer by LYING to Americans. I think Mr. Kellar gets it, only time will tell. But people are FED UP with politicians. I for one am sick of listening to their politically correct double-speak. Jeff!, NEWSFLASH! NO ONE cares or gives a crap what ANY politician thinks or says. WE DON’T TRUST THEM ANYMORE! These are not the views of an “extremist”, but how the average American feels.
Scvpatriot wonder if that is the same scvpatriot that made a physical threat to Harrison Katz?
Frank Jorge calling for the assisination of politicians that don’t see things his way… Is extreme.
You don’t know how the average american feels… Only a fool would speak with authority on the feelings of another person let alone 300 million.
Btw
Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel – Samual Johnson
BGH, do you have a blog? Your comments are longer than some blog posts, whew!
Does Anybody Really Think that the incumbents in City Hall are going anywhere?? Really??
It’s called inertia and entropy among the voters.
CrumbandGin, thanks for my new favorite put down, “racist puke”.
Bob Kellar makes me nauseous come to think of it, not even dealing with his ill judged remark, it’s obvious the guy doesn’t think Before He Speaks or have much in the way of Common Sense or IQ.
I hope he gets shown the door next election, I will for sure do my part at the voting booth.
Kelly: you have asked the same question before and I already answered it but here goes again, NO. If you find my posts too long, do not read them…
As to your comments regarding Bob Kellar, Bob has done very well for himself since according to you “ the guy doesn’t think Before He Speaks or have much in the way of Common Sense or IQ.”
Let’s see, I believe he served honorably in our armed forces including as a Green Beret (best of the best!), also passed the test and was hired and rose within the ranks of the LAPD to train other officers, passed the Realtors exam, and has been and is a very successful business man here in Santa Clarita, was Canyon Country Chamber of Commerce President, was elected to the City Council more than once, has served as our Mayor more than once, and has supported and indeed held many non profit fundraisers at his personal residence. I am sure I am missing many other accomplishments too. These are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
Now, which one of you sounds like someone who doesn’t think before they speak or have much in the way of common sense or IQ?
Bob Kellar is racist and even Buck McKeon can buy a clue, BGH, too bad you can’t.
That is your opinion, Kelly and you are certainly entitled to it. Your “response” however only confirms what you have already indicated within your previous post.
Numerous different individuals, including me, have already addressed the “Bob Kellar is a racist” comments multiple times. Go back and read previous posts if you have an open mind, if not please do not bother wasting your time or mine.
Kelly – you are the first person that I have actually seen call Kellar a racist. I thought it was ironic these people were whining about being called racist when no one Had actually called them that. Kellar didn’t call himself a racist, he used a strawman argument on himself, claiming unnamed people were labeling him a racist. I get it and so
should you. It is really a dead issue which is way overblown.
For the record I don’t believe any speaker at the rally was racist. Extemist, illogical, foolish? Yes Racist? No
Blazing: The world must be coming to an end…we actually agree on something.
Or could it be that somehow we can find common ground?
Vince, yes I think we can stipulate that Councilman Kellar inadvertently violated the provisions of the Code of Ethics the first time around, and at this last rally he pointedly declared that he was speaking as a private citizen and not representing the Council, thus acknowledging the application of the Code.
Let it go. There is no penalty in the Code for a violation whether major or inadvertent. I really doubt that there will be any subsequent similar violation by him or any other Councilmember. Time to move on.
Thanks Rocky for finally giving me an intelligent rebuttal. See how simple that was, BGH and Blazing?!
Although, I do believe that, even though there is no penalty on paper, the other members of the city council owe the citizens some sort of response other than saying (as one of two did) that he didn’t violate the code. Personally, I think they should have taken some kind of action, no matter how minimal…at least recognize the violation and ask him not to do it again. What is so wrong with that? By the way, I’ve sent a LTE to the Signal…we’ll see if any non-SCVTalkers have an opinion.
Thanks again Rocky!
And Berta – with all due respect, I do agree with ONE of Kelly’s comments. As a blogger myself, i’m well aware of the short attention span of web readers. And yes, I’m guilty of breaking that here.
Whether I agree with you or not, I’m always interested in reading what you have to say, but honestly, many times it’s just too much to absorb, especially while at work
, so i skip over.
With that said, perhaps you could consider breaking up replies to separate posts in separate comments.
Or maybe use more line breaks.
Or of course, find a way to shorten your replies – as I just did here (it started out MUCH wordier!).
And I, for one would visit your blog if you started one.
Vince: I gave you that nearly identical answer weeks ago. Perhaps because it was from me, you did not read it.
Your other comments are duly noted.
Thank you for your offer to read my blog if I started one. I will take that as a compliment. Jeff Wilson at one time wanted me to contribute to this blog but apparently changed his mind and never mentioned the subject again. I will assume because I frequently have an opinion that differs from his own.
Bill Reynolds spoke, so we know there’s at least one racist fool.
@Kelly: I assume you know both Kellar and McKeon personally to make such statements. NOT. The true fact is that McKeon is a lame duck and his term should be over. He’s no different than the rest of the high and mighty that are in Washington today. He only does what gets him elected.
@Monk: I’ve seen that lame quote from Johnson on your website as well. “Patriotism” in his context has no American meaning you silly boob. Man I can’t decide what side you are on. You may claim to be conservative, but Im not buying it. Are you Progressive? You like Big Govt? Or Glenn Beck?
SCVguy perhaps you can explain – “Patriotism” in his context has no American meaning”…
You are confused by my position… doesn’t surprise me. I get two choices.
I am either a conservative and like Glenn Beck
Or
I am a progressive and like big govt.
LOL
@Monk: get a life. Really
I didn’t ask the question you proposed, you twisted it all around. You’re nothing more than a troublemaker with nothing better to do.
@everyone else: I have started my own blog and will be launching it by the end of the week. You are all invited and Berta I would be honored to have you blog on it. It will be from a very conservative/libertarian point of view.
@Jeff: I know we don’t always agree, but big props to you for this blog. You are invited too.
SCV Guy: thanks. Look forward to your blog. I won’t try to get you fired from your job if you don’t try to get me fired from mine, cool?
You addressed me… I just asked you to support you statement?
I ASKED QUESTIONS… is that what Glenn Beck does?
If you can’t support you argument… just say so.
@Jeff: that’s fair.
@Monk: go back and reread my question and how you rewrote it. Totally different. This has been my point to you all along, you either like to cause problems or you have a hard time articulating English. You don’t play fair and Im over it.
Just in case your dwelling on it, I didn’t give you only two choices, but actually three and they were all independant and not inclusive of each other, that was your doing. I was just trying to get to know you
FLUSH!
SCVGuy: I look forward to your blog and thanks for the invitation. I may just take you up on it, as long I am free to speak my mind and call it as I see it. Be sure and let us know when you are up and running. My hats off to all of you who maintain a credible blog. It really is a lot of work. In the meantime, I will continue to challenge some assumptions here…and there really are some great folks on this site too.
SCVguy what was silly boob part of you question? My bad…
If you can’t support you statements I would suggest making less of them.
Good English, keep it up Monk.
I think my point was clear, YOU are the silly boob.
Typical resort to Ad hominem when you can’t support you logical fallacies. Good luck on that blog.
Oh and I will take that as a concession.
Hey, Blazing monk, is something the matter with the R key on your computer?
Nope just a quirky thing I have always done…
Okay, thanks for clarifying Blazing, quirks make the world an interesting place for sure.
Berta – re: “My hats off to all of you who maintain a credible blog. It really is a lot of work. In the meantime, I will continue to challenge some assumptions here…and there really are some great folks on this site too.”
I better not see you try to argue whether or not John Lennon is dead on MY blog
We won’t.
Well Mr. blazingmonk you speak like a true arrogant pompous blazing ASS. You are quite obviously a BLAZING COMMUNIST. LOL and you call me a fool. And who is Harison Katz? I am just an ordinary citizen, but I listen to what people are saying, and it it is VERY obvious to me that MOST people are angry at politicians….at least most normal conservative folks. Maybe not the progressive crowd you hang out with. You are obviously educated, and you think you are an intellectual, but you obviously have NO CLUE what many Americans think if you call Frank Jorge’s comments extremist. Your arrogant socialist views are truly extremist!
First. I don’t think you understand what a pompous ass is. I am not the one who claims to know how people feel and know what crowd a person hangs with… only a fool makes such assumptions about a person they know nothing about.
Second. Frank Jorge calling for Political Assassination is EXTREMISM, if you don’t see that I have to assume you are knee deep in a pool of extremism yourself.
Plain and simple…
People like you are doing nothing but throwing a temper tantrum because you lost an election… don’t like democratic process? I am sure you can find a country more to your liking, may I suggest Cuba a few miles to the south.
BTW. How can you call yourself an “SCVpatriot” and not know who Harrison Katz is? You don’t pay attention to who is running for office in our own city?
pom·pous (pŏm’pəs)
adj.
1. Characterized by excessive self-esteem or exaggerated dignity; pretentious
See also: grandiloquent, overblown, pontifical, portentous, blazingmonk
———
Sounds like SCVPatriot hit it on the mark to me.
@Monk: I guess I just didn’t see that sound bite but I have never seen Frank Jorge call for Political Assassination, not even close.
If you are referring to this video, I don’t get it. He said “what if” not “go do”. If you think otherwise please see definition above.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XapIgkxr3Rk
You’ve still never stated where you stand, are you a progressive? If not, then what?
Good video showing what is happening on the far communist side of things, and Monk says Jorge is radical?
http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/37192/
Are you really a conservative, take the test: http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/36981/
For the record, MSNBC is falling apart and even trying to silence their own: http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/36332/
“Politicians will respect you when they see a round going through their windshield and getting into their flesh”
-Frank Jorge
Glenn beck fan that says it all…
SCVguy is Robert Gardner it all makes sense now.
You think so? Three kids, IT background, bitter grudge against SCVtalk? First comment on his own blog?
Classic Rob, from the archives:
http://www.scvtalk.com/oldsite/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=656
http://scvtalk.com/oldsite/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=415
Then there is this…
http://www.the-signal.com/news/article/25539/
Scrub SCV and you won’t find a person that likes Robert Gardner…
Hilarious that he had a conversation with himself.
Shoots, scores!