Photo Courtesy of Nate Imhoff. Check his blog at www.blazingmonk.com for more great shots
Today I stood in the cold rain for two hours observing 75 Minutemen and Minutewomen. I learned some things. I un-learned some other things. Here’s my observations.
It seemed as if the Minutemen who stormed the SCV in January were on a roll. Bob Kellar never backed down, even when Meg Whitman disowned him and Buck McKeon said he should apologize. They had enlisted several new speakers, including high profile ones like State Senator George Runner, to aid in their cause. They were optimistic that 250+ people would show up at their rally, and they were ready to double down on just about everything they said at the last meeting.
But it didn’t turn out that way.
First of all, our local and out-of-town Minutemen weren’t alone today. They were bested in both turnout and volume by the ANSWER LA immigration activists, who showed off their protesting chops by shouting for their cause in unison and by being mobile.
They shouted the standard ANSWER agitprop “The people, united, can never be defeated!” through their bull-horn. One Angry Minuteman tried to counter that with the awkward and rhythmically-challenged, “We can cross the border illegally!” in an attempt, I guess, to ironically shame them.
Needless to say, the shout didn’t catch on among the largely 50+ year old Minuteman crowd.
The rally itself started quite late, but it didn’t take long for things to warm up. Pastor Audie Yancey, the “illegals are evil” star of the January rally, kicked things off again this time around with a milder invocation.
At least I thought it was milder.
State Senator George Runner (of all people!) didn’t think so, and you can see his animated and heated exchange with Minuteman organizer Frank Jorge in the video below.
As Pastor Yancy went on another tear against illegals and told the protesters to shut up, Runner headed for the exits with his aide in tow. I asked some local Republicans why Runner had left, and the consensus seemed to be that he 1) didn’t like the Pastor telling the protesters to shut up (thereby acknowledging their presence) or 2) the rhetoric was a bit too heated even for his taste.
Runner’s desertion of the Minuteman left Frank Jorge hopping mad:
With Runner out of the picture, I thoguht for sure that Bob Kellar and David Gauny might be having second thoughts about speaking at this rally. I watched them as Jorge made his speech, but they showed no reaction. They were ready to press on even when the high-profile Senator abandoned ship.
Things started to move briskly. Ray Herrera, a veteran, took to the stage and outlined a grand conspiracy for everyone in the crowd. I can’t say I even caught the broad outlines of this theory, but it had something to do with the enduring power of the “Anglo Protestant People,” the Puritans and Pilgrims, World War II and Saipan, tyranny, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck. After invoking all that, he pointed toward the ANSWER activists and said this:
They don’t have the core values, they don’t have a progressive state. They don’t have the courage to stand up in Mexico and fight for what they want.They want to take it from you. I’m going to say it like it is. They want to take it from the white man.
Of course, Herrera immediately recovered from “saying it like it is,” and said that what the ANSWER activists really didn’t understand was that there was no white man in America because all Americans are equal before the law and when push comes to shove, Americans of all races would fight the Japanese in the foxhole together on the beach at Saipan.
Or something.
In any case, he provided some context that made his remarks seem less like a call to arms in defense of the white man’s things, and especially, his women folk (because who wouldn’t want them some fine white women?)
Moving on, it was David Gauny’s turn to speak. Undeterred by Runner’s exit and Herrera’s grand American theory of everything, he started by poking some fun at Kellar. He then said that many had advised him that showing up at the rally would guarantee he wouldn’t be elected and then launched into campaign mode.
His speech was largely unremarkable, though he did channel Steve Lunetta and mention how bad things are in Newhall with regards to day laborers. Funny that he didn’t mention that those men stand out their because we Santa Claritans are hiring them every day.
David, you’ve lost my vote. I hope your appearance before 75 or so anti-illegal immigration activists, most of whom don’t live here, was worth it. I have my doubts.
Bob Kellar was up next and made sure to emphasize that he was speaking on his own behalf. He was proud to say that those of us who wanted him to apologize were going to have to wait a long time. The rest of his remarks were prepared and it’s safe to say he left Cranky Bob Kellar at home in Sand Canyon today. I only wish he had done the same in January. I genuinely liked this man.
Finally, it was Roger Gitlin’s turn to speak.. I’ve gone back and forth on Roger Gitlin on this blog. Sometimes he seems reasonable, even hinting that he supports humane immigration reform. At other times, he tosses his lot in with the crazies like Frank Jorge. Happily, the former showed up today, and he was engaging and lucid and reminded the Minuteman to protest the issue of illegal immigration, not the illegal immigrants themselves. Of course he then went on about illegal alien criminals, but compared to the rest of the speakers, Gitlin was almost someone I could have a conversation with. Almost.
As the rally wore on, I became less interested in recording each speaker. They largely said the same thing. I will say that the black man from South Central who got up and defended Bob Kellar and shouted the word “nigger” several times made me wince (that’s a hell of a thing to hear in downtown Valencia, Nate Imhoff told me), but other than that, I was bored. So I decided to confront Pastor Yancey because his January comments bugged me the most:
Yancey comes off less the racism-justifying preacher of yesteryear and more the confused old man who’s past his prime.
By the way, props to Tony Miano, the SCV street preacher, retired Sheriff’s Deputy and blogger who denounced Yancey and said he was at the rally because “people are here” and not because he agreed with the sentiments. You should check out his blog, where he reflects on Pastor Yancey.
Concluding Thoughts
In the end, I didn’t leave feeling triumphant or beaten down. I left feeling pity for these protesters. One of them mentioned “globalization” and touched on the way the world has changed in the last several decades. In his mind, America should be like it was in the good old days, that mythical time of economic security, harmony and good jobs. That time when a man knew his place in the world, rather than finding himself confused and lost in modern American capitalism’s relentless race to the bottom (and that was before the bailouts!) What difference does it make to the American worker, he seemed to mourn, whether the cheap labor we depend on is in China or on the streets of Newhall? Both are bad for American workers.
This, I remain convinced, is what the anti-illegal immigration movement is really about: Economic insecurity.
I did share one thing with the Minuteman. I am angry. I am very angry that Deputy David March was murdered. I am angry there are illegal immigrants driving without licenses or insurance. I’m angry that the taxpayers foot the bill for an undocumented immigrant’s kidney dialysis at my mom’s unit while an elderly American gentleman struggles getting his insurance company to pay for his. I’m angry that Adrian Avilla, an illegal immigrant, raped several women in Canyon Country a few years ago.
I’m also angry that American companies get fat off the backs of these people and no one stops them.
I’m angry about these things but the difference between me and the Minutemen is that I think the solution is to get illegal immigration under control and provide a path to citizenship for the vast majority of illegal immigrants who come here, work hard, and just want to improve their lives. In that sense, I’m on the side of President Bush who tried to fix this problem in 2006. But his effort died at the hands of the Minutemen.
And unfortunately, they’re not giving up and they’re never going to change their tune.
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After the thrashing that you guys are serving Gauny it is no wonder that our political leaders won’t declare a position or lift a hand to rectify a problem. Oh no, we wouldn’t want to piss someone off!
One last thing. It seems that Tim’s choice is one for another ineffective leader like Johnny Pride. Right Tim, your endorsement matters…LOL
A question for Berta – Perhaps you can explain to me why, if Bob Kellar did not violate the city’s code of ethics when he didn’t annonce that he was not speaking on behalf of the City at the first rally, why did he clearly do so this time?
Dave Gauny is not the reasonable person here. He wants to kick illegal alien renters (and their children) out on the street, essentially making them homeless.
He won’t say it like steve lunetta does, but I bet he wouldn’t be opposed to rounding them up from the street too.
Ahhh Fred…you know, I like you and your blog, but you’re just so hot on the equivocation angle, you tire me. You have no argument in favor of creationism, so you say evolution is a religion. You think global warming is false, so you also call it a religion.
And now you equivocate when a pastor gets up there and says clearly racist things, even when another Christian (Tony Miano) calls it like it is and condemns that man.
Guess who I’m more likely to listen to?
Can somebody please check on Berta and Cash to see if they are o.k.?
I miss their funny comments.
Yeah, where’s Berta and Cash?
Sleeping in their troll cave.
Hello all. Nice to know you missed me. I spent the remainder of the weekend with grandkids and great grandkids having fun.
I attended yesterday’s rally and met a few scvtalk posters. Nice to meet you guys. I did not agree with some of the comments of Mr. Yancy or Mr. Jorge but have to say George Runner knew perfectly well it was not a Tea Party meeting. If you look at the photos taken of him, he is standing right in front of placards saying “no amnesty”. In addition, I approached him there and talked to him about the issue of illegal immigration and my recent letter to him on the topic well before the actual meeting began. Sorry George but you are not being forthcoming. If you really objected to the pastor asking the protesters to quiet down, you had the opportunity to make comment at the microphone instead of bolting, as you did.
I will also add that the protesters advocating for open borders and amnesty were the ones who were aggressive, using bullhorns, and at one point marched over to where Bob Kellar was standing by himself. I saw them start in his direction and very intentionally walked over with a legal immigrant friend and positioned ourselves between them and Bob. They walked around us…They made a few more rounds and then left shortly thereafter as it started to rain. THEY WERE LOOKING FOR TROUBLE which none of you observers mentioned. By the way, before the event started, I drove by with my windows down and not one Minuteman, SOS, or other “Anglo” person harassed this Hispanic.
I think David Gauny did a great job of clearly stating his concerns with the issue of illegal immigration, making sure people did not interpret his attendance as an endorsement of the more radical attendees, and talking about things that can be done at the City of Santa Clarita level. If community leaders will not discuss this issue and come forward with solutions that can be implemented, then who will?
I do think this group needs leaders who are less offensive. Yancy, Jorge, and Herrera are too caustic for most people. They lose supporters who may sympathize with their cause but are not in agreement with their habit of insulting people. That includes me. Perhaps, another group with more moderate leaders will emerge. Roger Gitlin seems like a reasonable person. In fact, he has said he would support amnesty. In that respect, he is more moderate that I. I do not support amnesty. I support deportation with a streamlined application and approval process for those persons who meet all of the criteria for legal entry. Amnesty rewards unlawful behavior. Any parent understands that you do not reward behavior you do not want repeated and that it is important to be consistent. We cannot expect anyone from any country to patiently wait in line for their approvals to enter legally while at the same time saying “no problem, you can stay” to those who chose not to follow the rules.
To all of you who continue to insist that anyone attending a rally such as this one must be in agreement with all comments and actions of everyone else in attendance is ludicrous. I do not agree with everyone attending City Council meetings, Planning Commission meetings, or any of the other multiple meetings I attend. You probably do not either so let us get real here folks.
I have said many times before and continue to insist that unless more reasonable people discuss and resolve these issues, more radicals on both sides of the issue will join together and things will deteriorate to the point everyone, legal and not, will suffer.
Either enforce the law or work to change it.
Does the City of Santa Clarita election law allow for a “candidate write in” on the ballot? If so I think I found my third vote.
Berta… Why the clipboard?
Ahhh Fred…you know, I like you and your blog, but you’re just so hot on the equivocation angle, you tire me. You have no argument in favor of creationism, so you say evolution is a religion. You think global warming is false, so you also call it a religion.
Jeff, I wish you would come on over and leave comments. I would certainly enjoy the dialog on these issues. My brilliant readers will smack you around gently.
And now you equivocate when a pastor gets up there and says clearly racist things, even when another Christian (Tony Miano) calls it like it is and condemns that man.
Jeff, I agree with you and Tony, the guy is a racist puke. I was merely pointing out a similar militancy on your side as you would clearly find on “pastor” Yancy’s side. It’s just ironic.
I for one am sick and tired of Mike (and the regular crew) criticizing David Gauny for his attendance at this rally.
Mike was S I L E N T when the close association between Rev. Jeremiah Wright (Not God Bless America…God %$#@ America) and Father Pfleger was exposed for the world to see during the presidential campaign.
As I watched the rallt on Saturday , I kept asking myself Where would Obama Be ? The answer was crystal clear, standing with the malcontent agitators who want to transform America and ignore the values which made this a great country.
You go David Gauny-be strong and stand by your beliefs. Give the electotrate a choice on April 13.
Don’t hurt yourself stretching like that Crumb.
Show us where Wright said these things with the President in attendance. The right continues to play the card but can show NO proof Obama tolerated this in his and his familys’ prescence. The disassociation was also quickly done when Wright went whack. It might be a mental illness among his generation preacher, same as Yancey.
As to those listening to Yancey and shouting support and Amen, well, that is giving approval for the hatefilled diatribe this man of the cloth is spewing.
Isn’t it a coincedence how all the most radical groups wrap their crap in the flag and in religious overtones. Open your history books and see if you can find others who do the same. It shouldn’t take long!
I will give Gauny props for posting his feedback here. I still think this should have been a no show event. You don’t want to be associated with these types unless you’re Kellar it seems.
He thrives on the bigotry and stone throwing.
Great point crumb. It is all about the party with these people. Imagine if Gauny had said Obama was a light skinned no negro dialect candidate? Yeah I know I cant stop laughing either.
I am sure tim myers et al will be campaigning against that racist
Obama was certainly aware of the controversial background of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Wright was not invited to stand along side Obama when he announced for president.
When first confronted with the video and audio statements of Wright Obama did not condemn him, he stood along side.
It was only later that Obama threw his pastor under the bus with his grandmother.
Why would Wright warrant a place on the podium? Is America a theocracy?
How much do you follow your priest, reverand, et al.? Not at all? Not many do now, do they?
Berta’s epic paragraphs return!! Answer the Monk, Berta. What was with the clipboard?
Also, there WAS some harassment of drivers at stoplights. Albeit ineffective and laughable. The nice old man that starts in one of ND’s videos that calls the protestors “human debris”? I sat next to him as a car rolled down their window at a stoplight. The two people inside merely asked what was going on, but the fact that their skin was brown was enough for Mr. Get Off My Lawn, as he went off! He threw out the obligatory “Go back to Mexico!” but then sweetened the pot with “You are useless garbage!! Get out of here NOW!!” and my favorite “You don’t belong here and neither does your car!!”. Huh?? I told him he shouldn’t judge all cars so harshly.
The rest of your comment was so predictable, I already forgot it when I thought of it yesterday.
Yeah Berta, what were you doing there exactly? It appeared you were helping to organize the rally.
You never disclosed that but if it’s true, it definitely adds some perspective to your posts here.
Attempting to sell some surplus Girl Scout cookies maybe?
“I did share one thing with the Minuteman. I am angry. I am very angry that Deputy David March was murdered. I am angry there are illegal immigrants driving without licenses or insurance. I’m angry that the taxpayers foot the bill for an undocumented immigrant’s kidney dialysis at my mom’s unit while an elderly American gentleman struggles getting his insurance company to pay for his. I’m angry that Adrian Avilla, an illegal immigrant, raped several women in Canyon Country a few years ago. ”
Excellent statement!
Hi guys. Too bad the rest of you did not introduce yourselves since you obviously recognized me. Since Blazing asked a legitimate question without insults, I will answer. The clipboard was to gather signatures for those interested in supporting or wanting more information on David Gauny’s candidacy for City Council. I have been quite clear that I support David Gauny and have given reasons why multiple times so will spare you “regulars” the long version. David Gauny is fair, intelligent, reasonable, a good listener, does not hide from his detractors, gives clear thorough answers without prevarication, and offers real solutions not just more “political speak”. In my humble opinion, he would make an excellent Council member.
BGH – Another Question..
You seemed to really think Ted Hayes was funny, were you laughing at him or something else?
Oh, one more thing, if I were involved in organizing such a rally I would insist speakers check their egos before taking the microphone, sign a no cussing/insult clause, or I would personally cut them off at the microphone, free speech or not. The rally should have been about the ISSUE not about who was a bigger jerk. If they want more support for their cause, they have to rein in the nasty remarks. I tried to speak to Mr. Herrera at this rally regarding some comments he made at a City Council meeting, which I took exception to, directed at a black woman in the front row of said meeting. I apologized to the woman because I did not want her to take away the impression all Hispanics agree with his ignorant comments. He was not interested in discussing the issue with me.
There is a group on the internet, which seems in line with my stance but I think it is inactive or defunct. I have refrained with aligning myself with any of these groups because they do not stay on point and too many egos are involved. As I said perhaps, a new more moderate group will emerge to address this issue.
Blazing: I did think some of Mr. Hayes comments were funny…
Your thoughts on his use of the N word?
If TM is against Gauny then David has my vote!
Blazing: Mr. Hayes used the “N” word to make the point that he was called that word 4 times in his entire life by “Anglos” but over 100 times in 1 day by people like the group from AnswerLA.
I guess they can accuse Mr. Kellar and others of being racists but somehow have immunity when they make clearly racists comments.
So Context makes it ok to shout that word from a amplified system in the heart of our city?
@Monk: is it ok for half the rappers to use the ‘N’ word?
Yes, context is important, it’s required for proper communication. If people could stop thinking so shallow they’d get it.
But PC has destroyed the very fabric of free speech in our country and I commend honorable people like David Gauny and Bob Kellar and Glenn Beck who risk it all to be real and communicate on the real issues.
Reposting from above:
A question for Berta – Perhaps you can explain to me why, if Bob Kellar did not violate the city’s code of ethics when he didn’t announce that he was not speaking on behalf of the City at the first rally, why did he clearly do so this time?
Don’t change the subject SCVguy… does context make it ok for Ted Hayes to shout the “N” word from an amplified system in the heart of our city?
Don’t give me the PC argument it isn’t considered being PC to not call a black person a “N” word.
My house growing up was as conservative as they come and that word was unacceptable under and circumstance.
under and circumstance = under any circumstance.
@Monk:I believe I did address your question and didn’t change the subject at all. I provided your with a thought provoking question in the hopes that would be able to understand that “YES” context is important. For example:
“I was called a ‘ni****’ as a child growing up is much different than ‘your are a filthy ‘ni****’ are two very different things.
Using the “N” word should not be taboo in the right context and removing the word from our vocabulary does nothing but stifle the history and negative meaning. Why would we want to do that? It’s a shame people have to be so afraid of words these days and even in the correct or positive context. It’s not as black and white as you are portraying.
It was unexpectable in my house too, my mother would have back handed me for the use if the word, but not in the context if a story.
For clarification on the first amendment, the freedom if speech does give anyone the right to use this word and in any context they choose. It’s their right. While I don’t condone it, I would never tell anyone they could not use it either. THAT’S UNAMERICAN!!
No SCVguy you threw up a Red Herring and I am not biting.
Do you think the people sitting in their car care to hear him yelling the “N” word through a sound system?
What about he parents that might have to now explain what that word means and why some moron is yelling in public?
What about how it looks for our city?
Ted Hayes belief that some how it was illogical that he could be racist was just plan wrong. No speaker focused more on race then Ted Hayes, he felt entitled to referred to people by their race rather then their names. Most of the time he got their names wrong when he did try to refer to them by their names…
People do have the right freedom of speech to say whatever they like… they don’t however have the right to amplify it and shout profanity / racist slurs from county property in the middle of our city. They had a permit but not a permit to project hate speech.
Just because people are easily offended doesn’t mean a people should go out of their way to offend people like Ted Hayes, Pastor Yancy and Frank Jorge did.
You are correct Blaze. This isn’t the first time I’ve heard public display of the N word by a black man (person of color to be freaking PC). I had a friend years ago who would refer to himself and other mutual friends in that text. It wasn’t meant to be critical, demeaning or anything other than freindly reparte’. The word, even in that context, still makes me uneasy.
Vince: question answered previously ad nauseam. I am sure Bob made it crystal clear so you would not have something to talk about for another month.
Blazing: If Mr. Hayes chooses to use that or any other word in order to make his point in reference to himself, which you seem to ignore, that is his right.
I personally would not use it but then again I am not black. Mr. Hayes probably would not use beaner, chili chocker, wetback, night swimmer, etc but I certainly have in relating what others have called me from the Anglo side and I have also repeated Malinche, racist, coconut, sell out, etc when describing what folks from the illegal side have called me. Do I like any of the slurs? No! Are they a reality? Yes. We cannot remove every word from our conversations in order to please whomever.
Mr. Hayes was making a point. I got it.
So BGH if he choose to use profanity would you also have no problem with that? He has freedom of speech after all.
I think it is funny you say… “We cannot remove every word from our conversations in order to please whomever.”, especially when you are the first to whine about what I have said in the past. I would suggest that you decide on a position and keep it.
We do not have Freedom of Speech in every circumstance, we can’t go on the radio or tv and use whatever language we choose. The same applies to this situation, they didn’t have a permit that allowed them to amplify hate speech into the streets of Santa Clarita. I think it is most telling that you found his speech funny… Aside from his inability to call people by their names and his use of racist terms, I found his speech to be most illogical and Random. Makes sense that he received 2% of the votes when he ran for office, apparently I am not the only one who thought the guy is a moron.
Blazing says: I think it is funny you say… “We cannot remove every word from our conversations in order to please whomever.” especially when you are the first to whine about what I have said in the past. I would suggest that you decide on a position and keep it.
My position has always been the same Nate. Please pay attention. I believe in freedom of speech even if and when I disagree with the content. I do believe in the right of a snot nosed kid to insult people simply for his entertainment but I do not have to give you the respect of engaging in discussion with you when you do that. When you wish to have a discussion and ask legitimate questions of me, I engage. When you simply want to throw out insults, I am not interested. Is it clear now?
@Monk: That’s right, no debate for you. You can’t handle it when you can’t argue the point or the tables are reversed.
@ND: Monk has no point other than he wants limited freedom of speech.
While I don’t condone these words, I also do not believe I have the right to sensor them.
If I was there and my children heard those words and asked (although I’d already be explaining it to them before they had a chance to ask) I would see that as a great opportunity to PARENT. I guess that’s the difference. I see the glass half full and identify opportunities, not stomp on them.
I didn’t ask if you believe in freedom of speech… everyone says they believe in that. The problem comes in practice.
Do you think people should be able to say WHATEVER they want regardless of the situation? In short, Are you against ALL Censorship?
SCVguy – I don’t fall for your Logical Fallacies… bring up Hip-Hop artist is an entirely different subject and irrelevant to this topic as much as you would like to twist it to fit your purpose. That is called bringing up a “Red Herring”, you can’t debate unless you frame something the way you want.
Americans have freedom of speech which really equates to freedom of thought, Ted Hayes can say whatever he likes in conversation. There is a problem when you hook up sound equipement and start spoating off in public.
I have an issue with using power from the county which is paid for by the public to spread hate speech.
There is also an issue with sound ordinances, which means someone shouldn’t be able to blast hip-hop music with profanity and racist slurs so everyone in the public is forced to listen.
It is entirely different problem that this racist rhetoric was given in our community by an outsider brought in by another outsider since Roger Gitlin is running away like a coward from his rally he pumped up for a month.
That is the same Roger Gitlin who wrote letters and called the Signal trying to get my column pulled from the Signal… hmmm Freedom of Speech argument? Actually no… I don’t have freedom of speech to publish whatever I want in the Newpaper.
Really Blazingmonk? It wasn’t clear enough for you?
Come on ND these guys believe in 100% uncensored society… means sex, violence and profanity on Radio, TV or a billboard.
If your your kids see some hot man on man during prime time TV… it is a great time to teach them about Gays.
Quit being such a stick in the mud.
Free FUCKING speech for all. LOL
SCVGuy: I almost missed your write in “vote” comment. Thanks…
Boy would that give Blazing, Mike, Gangfang and a few others a stroke!!!!
Blazing: I recall Navigator and myself having asked you to refrain from using the word p@$$* several times in past posts, among other offensive words, so it is striking that you are now the one making an issue of Mr. Hayes and his comments.
ND: while I believe your kids are wonderful little tikes, they have unfortunately probably already heard many “bad” words at school, with friends, on TV, and through other means. I know my 3-year-old great grandson, who is of mixed Black/Caucasian/Chumash (Native American) race and Hispanic ethnicity has already heard the “n” and “f” words among others. They most likely are already aware of words they should not repeat. I have already talked about these and other “bad” words with him. If not yet, at the appropriate time you will have that conversation with your kids and explain to them that with freedom of speech comes personal responsibility. Over the din of traffic and bullhorns, I doubt anyone’s comments were heard at a distance, particularly inside the library building but if you are not sure ask your children what they heard and as a responsible parent take it from there. I wish we could protect all children from the ugly things in life but we simply cannot. Like SCV Guy said, that is where good parenting comes into the equation.
Mrs Navigator spent countless hours editing VHS tapes when our girls were little even though their little friends would blurt out the non-repeatable words. I always got, “daddy, we hear it in school all the time.” My response was always, “maybe so, but you don’t hear it from me so I don’t want to hear it from you.”
@Monk: you are wrong about freedom of speech, its in all forms, verbal and print. Yes there are rules, but none were broken at the rally and I do not believe the City’s noise ordinance was broken, I saw the sheriff car in the parking lot monitoring the rally, they would have come over and shut them down if they violated any laws or their permit.
If The Signal doesn’t have the journalistic integrity to publish your words, then they are upholding YOUR freedom of speech. But they may have rules of their own that you will have to follow, that’s also business and a bit different, if they are not taking your civil rights away from you. And they aren’t because you can go have your work published somewhere else, YOU have the choice to leave and/or publish your own words, just as Jeff has done here with SCVTalk.
Now, there are rules, of course, the FCC (ah-hem, a gov’t agency) but don’t get me started there ….
@ND: I am happy to play. I have three children, 15, 12 and 6. We used to have an appt in San Francisco and when my oldest son was 6 years old he saw two men kissing on the corner. He asked why they were kissing. While I didn’t get into any deep conversation about the birds and the bees, I did explain enough in context that he could understand and also shared my values and God’s values on the matter. Guess what, I paved a path for future communication on the topic and build a bond with him that he knew he could come back to me and talk about anything. OPPORTUNITY! CHALLENGE! SUCCESS!
To think that you believe your children are not old enough to be able to have a conversation even at 4 and 6 about life is not at all laughable to me, but gives me sorrow. Give your children more credit than that, they know much more and are much smarter than you think.
All your other points – again I turn to parenting. It works.
* Did I make post 100 on this thread??
ND: all decent people, as I am sure you are, abhor all slurs based upon ethnic background, gender, race, religion, etc. but not talking about it does not make it go away.
Educating all of our children to base their opinion of others based upon the content of their character and not the color of their skin, as Martin Luther King so eloquently stated, is our future.
“I recall Navigator and myself having asked you to refrain from using the word p@$$* several times in past posts, among other offensive words,”
Good point why are you trying to censor my free speech while giving Ted Hayes a free pass?
I didn’t take a bullhorn and shout profanity at pass cars?
“They most likely are already aware of words they should not repeat.”
So children know not to say those words… but a grown man thinks because he is black he can’t be racist and can say whatever he wants.
“I doubt anyone’s comments were heard at a distance, particularly inside the library building”
I can tell you someone at work told me they drove by when Ted Hayes was speaking and heard some of his rhetoric, I told him he missed the most offensive parts.
“I wish we could protect all children from the ugly things in life but we simply cannot.”
ND at least she agrees that Ted Hayes speech was ugly… now if we could get an explanation why she thought it was so funny he was using such words.
Blazing: you are perhaps intentionally misinterpreting my words. I never said Mr. Hayes words were offensive. They may have offended you but did not offend me as I understood context, motivation, and point being made. Just as I very clearly understand the context, motivation and point being made when you post comments on this site. Do us both a favor and do not try to put words in my mouth.