I spit coffee all over my monitor this morning as I read this in TMS:
“When I first brought up that the façade of the library looks like a ski chalet … everyone laughed,” said Kevin Korenthal, a member of the Newhall Redevelopment Committee. “The more we look at it, the more it really looks like a ski chalet.”
At Tuesday’s City Council meeting, several members from the committee and the Old Town Newhall Association told council members the design of the library on Lyons Avenue doesn’t fit in with the Old West look of Main Street, which includes wood-plank sidewalks and hitching posts.
City Council members agreed.
Mayor Laurene Weste and council members Marsha McLean, Laurie Ender and Bob Kellar all said they wanted to go back to the drawing board to make sure the library incorporates the history of Newhall.
OMG. 4 Real? SRSLY?
They’re calling into question the design of the library now? In this budget climate, in this time? When we should feel lucky to have the wherewithal and resources to build in the first place?
Where were you Johnny Come Latelies in 2008, when the City of Santa Clarita held public meetings to discuss the look, feel, features and design of the new Newhall Library? Where were you when the City released these sketches back in August of 2009? Kevin Korenthal, you are on the damn committee that approved these plans. Why are you bringing this up now?
Why is this coming up now a week after these same City Council members busted out the golden spades and broke ground in our beloved Newhall?
And what the hell is this?
“Old Town Newhall Association told council members the design of the library on Lyons Avenue doesn’t fit in with the Old West look of Main Street”
The Old West look of Newhall? Come again?
Does this look Ye Olde West to you?
How about this?
Spanish Colonial Style, not Olde Weste!
At best, Newhall is a funky mix of different architectural styles. Aside from the Western Walk of Stars and say, Melody Ranch, there’s very little to suggest Old West in Newhall. Witness:
How many stained glass windows existed in the rootin' tootin' old west?
or this:
Victorian Style. It even says on the sign.
And it’s not just Victorian styles in Newhall either. Over in the Latin Quarter on Walnut Street, we have a school auditorium that is very suggestive of 1930s Art Deco:
Hart’s Mansion isn’t Old West. It’s Spanish Colonial:
And the Newhall Metrolink station, built just 10+ years ago by the City? It’s far from Old West:
There’s no Old West in evidence at the Community Center either:
Nope. Not here!
Just so it’s clear to our City Council and people like KK, let me show you what is and what is not Old West:
Not Old West. Just because Vasquez Rocks existed during the Old West does not make it Old West today (or in the future)
Definitely Old West. It happened in Melody Ranch, it's sepia-toned, and there is period clothing
Hey City Council: Themed Developments belong in Valencia in places like Bridgeport, not in scrappy Newhall. We like our diversity and mix of styles here, mkay? Please don’t take that away from us, it’s really all we have left in this sea of sameness.
Build. The. Damn. Library.
Unless this is a smokescreen for some other problem?
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ABSOLTEULY LOVED EVERY WORD OF THIS ENTRY!!! This design was painstakingly approved and discussed! Changing it now is a waste of money and time. So irritating.
I agree on all accounts! Kevins right. The library looks like a ski chalet. It’s awful and I have no clue what they were thinking.
Why are they thinking of this now? They seriously want to spend money fixing aesthetic issues of their own creation? Now?
DTN suffers from a serious case of identity crisis. Agreed LOL.
Pass. The. Damn. Bill…
er wait…
Build. The. Damn. Library.
there’s nothing more essential to the southern California mindset than building things in whatever style strikes your fancy. nice post, Jeff!
Good job Jeff!
Now can you get them to explain why the Canyon Country branch is closing for 6 months for remodeling with no new facility on-line? I heard that library business is high for the on-line services. What do these users do now?
Just another reason why the incumbents and their iffy decisions need to get back to their regular lives. It’s cheaper for the city!
EPIC post!
Well put! I’m not crazy about the design, but there is little architectural cohesion in the area. That said, it’s very much in line with the style of Metrolink station, a major public building in its immediate proximity.
A funny quip by KK, but it doesn’t look like a ski chalet.
Everyone knows that the LEED designation is the tail waging the dog on this project, as it constricts the design and materials used.
The politicos (and other assorted Plambeck/Gutzeit types)kneel down at the temple of LEEDS and will accept whatever design gives them the keys at close and peace of mind that they have saved the planet
Great post, and just one more example of how ridiculous wastes of money happen. I do not even see the ski chalet comparison to begin with, but as someone who spends a tremendous amount of hours in the downtown Newhall area I will say that, other than the new streetscaping, there is no consistent architectural theme whatsoever to the area… and it’s absolutely fine that way.
These folks were sleeping on the switch, if they worked in the private sector, they would get the boot!
This design can be “westernized” with different finishes and trim, color scheme. You know, to match the auto repair shops and panaderias and liquor store.
Did they include a hitching post and a bike rack?
First of all, Jeff, many of us were there long before 2008 and saw first hand what the various types of architecture would look like. This style was NEVER agreed upon. It was pushed through by the same people who are sitting at the dais now without regard to input given by OTNA or the NRC. That is why it is being questioned now. If the City says that everyone was on board with this back in 08 they are pulling your chain. All that is being asked is as Kelly says, “This design can be “westernized” with different finishes and trim, color scheme.” No one wants to go to the huge expense of redesigning the entire building. That would be insanity at this point. All it needs is a little creativity.
Apparently, nothing in Newhall can be done without doing it three times.
Look at the streetscaping. Why is it they don’t fire the geniuses who want all the trees and plants and then decide AFTER it is in with surrounding hardscape that water for it might be a good idea so they rip out all of the hardscape and do it all over again.
Look at the fiasco over the parking.
Someone is making bucks over all of these re-dos.
Libraries are going the way of pay phones… the county should fund library construction.
Jane – What part of the new streetscape was torn up to put in water lines to the new trees/shrubs?
All of it.
I love the ski chalet look. Reminds me of being in Mammoth.
Exactly! Got snow??
Navigator: I agree it can been made to look more in sync with what the OTN folks and the neighbors want with just a bit of tweaking on the exterior paint, finishes, trim and decor, etc. I think of it like make up on a woman. She can apply her make up to appear stern, sexy, professional, or natural, etc. Choose to highlight her best features or to hide her perceived flaws.
The exterior trims, treatments, and decor can make the library feel warm and inviting and in harmony with the neighborhood or cold and out of place. It does not need to take ANY extra time since nothing is built yet or extra cost since a bucket of paint costs the same no matter the color, and appropriate trim etc same thing. I do not believe anyone is asking for a major redo and to imply otherwise is simply dishonest.
Do you want Goth black, earth brown, red, or soft pink lipstick on your library?
Maybe someone knows better, but it looks like the exterior is natural stone. A change of lipstick may not be so easy.
Jeff, you are a tool for city staff with these uninformed comments of yours. The Redevelopment Committee never approved of the Craftsman design, ANYTHING BUT! But city staff once again schemed their way to trying to bypass the Redevelopment Committee and tried to get this design passed in spite of the ongoing disapproval from the Redevelopment Committee and business owners. If anything, Jeff, you should be thanking the Redevelopment Committee for standing up to city staff and taking a stand for the citizens and businesses that have always been very vocal about their dislike for this design but got it shoved off on them anyway.
If you thoroughly research the minutes of the Redevelopment Committee meetings, Jeff, you will not find an approval for that design from the Redevelopment Committee. City staff lied to City Council in their reports claiming Redevelopment gave their approval, and THAT is why the Redevelopment Committee finally had to go public with this mess. And if not for the Redevelopment Committee, there would only be half as much streetscaping. The Redevelopment Committee is always in there fighting for what the people want, yet it is this committee that gets criticized when they finally win the battles. Unfortunately, this design will probably get shoved through anyway, but the Redevelopment Committee wanted to be on record for NOT EVER giving their approval to this design, and being aginst it from day one. You owe the Redevelopment Committee an apology, Jeff, but something tells me that will happen when hell freezes over.
Laurie Ender proved she knows absolutely nothing about what is going on in Downtown Newhall with her ignorant comments.
Reminds me of Bass Pro Shops.
The republicans on this site will know what I’m talking about.
good one, and true
Great discussion. There are many beautiful Victorians/Craftsman style homes in the SCV (hence the filming of Big Love).
I add to your evidence the Southern Hotel built in 1837. Only link I can find:
http://www.santa-clarita.com/news/2007murals.asp
Old photo at:
http://www.scvhistory.com/gif/ap2704.jpg
Nothing like a good book in front of a roaring fire after skiing down Lyons.
My concern is less with the outside of the library than with the decisions that are made regarding the inside.
The Activity Center on Center Pointe is a great example of odd/unusable interior space design. There is a giant room with poor acoustics that is hardly used. There is a tiny dance room with barres and a mirror that can only hold 14 people and is not large enough for its intended use. The conference rooms are loud, no decor and ugly lighting.
I hope they don’t drop the ball on the interior design for this library.
Be sure to finish the exterior with an anti-grafiti finish.
That or put 24 hour armed guards around the place dressed like Wyatt Earp. There’s your Western decor!
I happen to be in the “design industry”. My guess is, the design fees were around $300-350k. Cost to redesign the exterior/architecture as well as the structure to accommodate, about 25% of that. So, say, $80k, at least, plust 3 months to re-design, plus, it’s already in the review process with Building and Safety so there’s another 1-2 months = dollars…Plus, construction costs seem to have bottomed out from what I’ve seen; the longer it takes to get an approved set of drawings, the risk of increased constr. costs increases.
I concur…Let it snow, Let it snow!
The only reason this City Council even pretends to listen to the people now is that it is right before the election. If the incumbents are re-elected, it will be right back to who-you-know and how-much-you-have.
NO VOTES FOR INCUMBENTS! (pass it on!)
I think the massage parlors in town should have more of a Old West look to them.
Good idea.
And I know who should be running the place… remember the mother of the mother/daughter team that got busted in Frazier Park, and the picture that ran of her?
They do Sam! Western Thailand
BJ is 100% correct in his comments. Both the NRC and OTNA were bypassed by either staff or a committee called the Newhall Library Subcommittee which no one even new about until recently. That committee has at least one council member on it.
To bypass these other two committees was shameful given that they have been the most committed and involved people in the redevelopment area of Old Town. Not to mention, those most affected.
The issue here was, once again, failed process. Such process is costing all of us LOTS of money in many different projects – like Redmond’s project just down the street. He got to this same point and then the council arbitrarily voted to spend $200K to redesign it and include a parcel he doesn’t even own!
This problem is completely unnecessary and my saying so isn’t fear-mongering, Jeff. These are problems occurring right now and you owe it to yourself and your readers to get the facts.
Why have qualified people on committees if you never listen to their input? The first concerns about this design were brought up by these committees in November – why was no discussion even had on this until after the ground-breaking? People are sick of having it shoved down their throats and the NRC and OTNA are both right in demanding fair hearing and process.
If you’re sick of it, change the council.
Gee Dave, any suggestions?
Ha, ha!
Great Report Jeff!
I think they just can’t stomach anything but beige. Leave it be and get er done!
no one said anything about fear-mongering…but it is grandstanding.
Wow, Dave, you found a nice spot for a grand-standing campaign speech. You should be thanking Jeff for it, not railing against him. I’m sure EVERYTHING would be different under you wouldn’t it?
It’s easy to just say “this elected official sucks, therefore I am a better option.” The truth is a given group being bad at their job does not by default make you a better option.
Here’s a notion for you and the others running for council, try treating it more like a job interview. Tell us what’s great about you and why we should hire you. Don’t walk into the company and assume that if we have other bad employees that you are a shoo-in if you merely point that out.
And be a bit more careful about which bandwagon you jump onto, your new buddies at Save our State are a bunch of opportunistic racist nut jobs, using you for their benefit.
Honestly the way you, and others to be fair, campaign is a reason why voter turnout is low and apathy is high. We are SICK of non stop negativity and mudslinging, truly sick of it by all of you. You sling mud and then after election or re-election you fall into the same exact patterns. You make the electorate feel hopeless.
Boy, David, city staff does get riled up here when they see the truth about themselves. Funny thing, I don’t see Mike or Jeff J. presenting any arguments to prove you or anyone else here wrong. They just come in throwing punches, but don’t have anything else to offer.
Yes, Jeff J, it IS easy to say city council and city staff sucks BECAUSE THEY DO! There is no transparency, and way too many issues get put on consent so as little community input as possible will bother them. They do what they want, city staff does what they want, and Pulskamp and Brotzman do what they want. City hall is a circus that needs to be closed down.
And voter turnout is low because voters know it is impossible to rid this city of corrupt, worthless incumbents that have limitless funds with PAC money working for them. As for needing to interview challengers as job applicants, I’m laughing my ass off at that one. There is NO REASON WHATSOEVER to re-elect a single incumbent. Just no reason. They have sat there long enough, time to at least pretend we have the term limits this city needs and vote them out. David Gauny and Tim-Ben Boydston have PROVEN they will fight for the people of this city, while city council has proven that the people of this city mean squat to them unless it’s election time.
Rocky says: March 25, 2010 at 12:40 pmThe only reason this City Council even pretends to listen to the people now is that it is right before the election. If the incumbents are re-elected, it will be right back to who-you-know and how-much-you-have.
NO VOTES FOR INCUMBENTS! (pass it on!)
I’m passing it on, Rocky!
NO INCUMBENTS!
VOTE FOR DAVID GAUNY AND TIM-BEN BOYDSTON!
We are SICK of non stop negativity and mudslinging, truly sick of it by all of you. You sling mud and then after election or re-election you fall into the same exact patterns. You make the electorate feel hopeless.
So, Jeff J., who is the “we” here? Sounds like Frank Ferry when he told David Gauny at a city council meeting “we” are going after you, “we” are using opposition research.” I guess all that negativity from Frank Ferry must have really disgusted you, Jeff J., certainly doesn’t get any more negative than hearing an incumbent threaten a challenger like that, and at city council, even. THIS is just one of a bazillion reasons why “we” are voting for DAVID GAUNY AND TIM-BEN BOYDSTON!
NO INCUMBENTS!
It makes me want to go fishing….I’ll be danged, I am a republican….
Spine2 – If only! The new library cannot be even remotely compared to the Southern Hotel.
From incumbent Frank Ferry to David Gauny, at city council: “We’ve been doing opposition research for a year,” he said, “we’re coming after you … now you’re going to learn the hard way.”
DAMN, that’s some negative campaigning! Sure would like to know who the “we” is.
Well Charlie I’m glad I could give you a laugh although you never did explain why what I said was funny or why a politician couldn’t spend more time focusing on their own positive attributes rather than just yelling about how bad the other guy is.
You gave me a laugh too at the insinuation that I am somehow part of the “city staff” *wooo hoo* (wipes tears of laughter from eyes).
I am not in any way endorsing the incumbents, I am saying it is time for us to start requiring all politicians to give us sound reasons for themselves first and foremost, and I’m not just talking about random unfulfillable platitudes like the ones we typically get. What we are often left with is a choice between the best of several unpleasant options.
My point was, and still is, that simply electing someone new does not automatically fix what is wrong.
You may very well be right, that no vote should be cast for an incumbent, so I would love to have people like David Gauny assume this to be true and then, take the high road, and move on to “interviewing” for this job opening, ie telling us specifically what he will do that is a positive. If your only real positive is “I’m not them,” that’s not good enough.
And if your only answer is, “I will listen to people,” please excuse me while I vomit into my garbage can at this sickly sweet tasting syrup of randomly indefinable political rhetoric. A rhetoric that if I was a guessing man I would think may have very well been espoused by these same incumbents when they were challengers… and the vicious circle turns.
Give me candidates who feel like they have even a shred of sincerity rather than political-speak and that is someone that I can stand behind.
Also David’s appearance at the SOS rally told me more about him than many of his other words have. Jumping on this bandwagon issue that this city has so little actual influence over for the sake of fear mongering is repugnant. Tying himself to their way of speaking about the issue shows an error in judgment at best in my opinion. FWIW I feel the same way about these incumbents’ votes on the immigration issues, particularly the denying of citizenship to those born to illegal immigrants, makes my stomach turn in all honesty.
Charlie, let me be clear, I think very little of Frank Ferry. What I have seen of him is he is a power hungry individual and that he behaves like a child and embarrasses this city with his theatrics and tantrums.
His antics, bullying and behavior are disgusting in my opinion.
These arguments alone do not prove that David Gauny will be any better if given the same authority. Let David Gauny show everyone why he is a good candidate instead of just “Not Frank Ferry.” “Not Frank Ferry,” is not enough alone to earn a vote of election partly because there are a number of other candidates who are “Not Frank Ferry,” including the other 2 incumbents running.
So again, nice attempt at trying to somehow label me a pawn for the city machine, you got the wrong guy I assure you. And BTW, your bullying tone in this discussion is NO different than the way Frank Ferry acts.
Go back and look at my words you quoted, “we” are sick of this behavior by all of them, those challenging, and those who are incumbents. I made that pretty damned clear in my posts. So I am not the “we” you try to paint me as. I am the “we” meaning people who would like to believe that government can work for and with us as a populace, but sees the same thing time and time again from insincere politicians who are no different than each other, they all just love a mud bath so much that they ritualistically get together and give each other one every couple of years.
NEWHALL REDEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES
March 2, 2009
2. NEW BUSINESS
C. Capital Projects Update-
“Committee members and staff discussed the Newhall Library architectural design.
The Newhall Redevelopment Committee made a motion to suggest the second Newhall Library structure be shown to City Council. John Grannis made the motion, and Carol Rock seconded it. All members were in favor.”
END OF QUOTE
Were you there? I was. Listen to the audio tape that the City keeps, it was a clear recommendation and the design is largely the same as that “second Newhall Library Structure” they recommended.
I’m not saying they did’nt recant later, but they recommended in March.
LOOK IT UP. Its all on record.
Thanks to those who supported here.
To the others, I’m not clear on what you want. I have raised these issues for nearly 6 years. I wasn’t running for city council then and I never planned to. My frustration is the only thing driving me now – not the pay and not the sound bites. I’m just sick of people not being heard and I believe I may have some better ideas, more energy, and a determination to apply our laws more fairly for our home and business owners.
Expecting candidates to post every plan on every blog post is a pretty tall order. Lately, it seems some newcomers have come with the sole intention of name-calling which is not worth weighing in on. When valid concerns have been asked about me or my agenda in the past, I think those who have been here awhile would agree that I have answered completely on numerous occasions. I have not wavered on what believe and I’ll either get the vote or I won’t.
Using the logic of some posters here, there is no way to run on such principals because everything a challenger says is “grandstanding.” The only reason I posted today is that key facts were missed in Jeff’s post that started this thread – facts that are RELEVANT to the validity of his complaint. How can you even weigh on the argument without such facts?
In what form do you expect better leadership to come from? There are more than a few people in this town who see clearly what the problems are with our elected leadership and our city process. I have very specific ideas for moving forward but people also need to understand the problems that exist.
David:
Can you ever get your head around the fact that maybe you just rub some people the wrong way?
Tim:
David Gauny has many supporters and we will just have to wait until April 13 to find out just how many, won’t we. You can wear your lucky hat all day, and I will wear something lucky too, just have not decided what yet.
David has earned the support of those of us who believe strongly he is the right person, at the right time, to represent our interests.
Speaking of rubbing the wrong way, Tim maybe you and Mike should carpool and go find one of those “message” parlors and find your “happy ending”. You are both cranky these days and it is still a couple of weeks until Election Day. Just trying to help…
“I think those who have been here awhile would agree that I have answered completely on numerous occasions.”
So after you’re elected are those who are new to town not allowed to ask questions or raise their opinions because you have already covered that ground at some other point? Please at least tell me you see where this particular statement flies in the face of your claim to be sick of people not being heard. Are you only allowed to be heard and responded to if you’ve “been here awhile?”
To be honest I don’t accuse you of being unique in this position. I think it is what tends to happen to most politicians after they’ve been elected.
Dave, I just think this is grandstanding here, not all the time. Your “outrage” here is disproportionate and dare I say it, opportunistic.
I also don’t think the design is that bad and I don’t understand the fuss. If it’s true that staff misled the council into believing that the Newhall panel signed off on the design, that’s a bad thing, but I don’t buy into the critique. It seems to complement the train station just fine.
For those who are interested in what TimBen Boyston stands for, take a look at these articles…
http://westranchbeacon.com/blog/2010/03/a-sharp-view-a-class-act-in-the-city-hall-race/
http://westranchbeacon.com/blog/2010/02/a-sharp-view-timben-boydston-auditions-as-city-hall%e2%80%99s-happy-warrior/
More information at http://TimBen.com
Well Mr. Gauny, since this subject is specifically about the Newhall Library, take this opportunity to illustrate to us what you, if you were a council member, would have done differently.
Do you have evidence that the council never considered the advice of those on the committees? Or did they consider the advice and then ultimately make a different decision, which didn’t sit well with those who gave advice? I honestly don’t know, and would love to be enlightened on the topic.
The other aspect of Jeff’s original post that you are ignoring is his argument that Old Town in no way has a cohesive Western theme which this library’s look inherently violates. Tell us on THIS issue how councilmember Gauny would have acted and how the outcome would be different.
In all frankness I look at the design of the library and think it looks like a great place and will be a credit to the area, western theme or not.
Also I find it amusing that you want to dismiss the questions, or concerns of newcomers… sounds pretty close to the complaint that you have about Frank Ferry and his attitude towards those who don’t share his view. Yet you thank those who come on in support of you and name-call against the incumbents. I guess it is a question of situational ethics. As long as the names are being slung at the people you oppose it is perfectly OK.
My guess is you will dismiss these concerns and arguments off hand, you will certainly gain back some of my respect if you address them specifically, some of the respect I lost by your appearance at the SOS rally.
Jeff J: I also find it interesting that “newcomers” with part of a name start slamming people when heretofore we had not heard from you at all.
It is a bit suspicious. Like maybe, you are using a phony name to shill for someone. Just wondering…
Nope no phony name Berta, but I can understand suspicions on blogs. I made sure to put the J to differentiate myself from the Jeff who writes the blog. Everyone is a new poster before they are an old poster though aren’t they?
Keep in ind if you look at the string on here I chimed in to the post before Mr. Gauny did. So I didn’t come on here looking to slam anybody, but again, suspicion is understandable.
I agree very much with Dave’s assessment and statement on all points in his latest post. This feels like disproportionate outrage on this particular issue, hence feeling opportunistic.
I don’t have a strong opinion about the design, only that the people involved in the Newhall Redevelopment Committee (NRC) and the Old Town Newhall Association (OTNA) should have, by definition, been included.
I know they were not because I attended the meetings when they raised concerns that they didn’t like –and had not voted on- the design. First they were told they did vote on it, then they were told the library committee voted on it, and then they were told there was no vote on it but that staff had moved it forward. In the end, they were told that it’s too late. That’s bad process.
I absolutely agree with Jeff’s comments that there is no cohesive theme in Newhall, I just didn’t comment about this. I’m not bagging on Jeff and never intended to. He implied that the expense of changing the design was a waste yet made no reference to the failure of process that created the problem. Two key committees that had every right to weigh in on it were not allowed to do so. That was my point.
Lastly, I didn’t dismiss newcomers, I just said name-calling is not something worth replying to. If you want my specifics, please visit my website where you’ll find many, including a 10-point plan for business, a plan for dealing with OVOV, and my ideas for the future of our city. I think it’s unfair to expect candidates to post every idea with every post or else berate them for having no plan.
As for Ferry, he spent $12,000 to buy Ender’s friendly vote on council. He then appointed his day-job secretary to the parks commission and Ender appointed a very unqualified friend to the planning commission. Who does that serve?
I do have specific plans and ideas and I’m hoping to step up and make them count. But even if I didn’t, Ferry has abused his CC privilege repeatedly and deserves to be replaced.
1) Do you like the design of the building? Do you feel like it functions as a nice landmark in Newhall? If this is ultimately true, then is it honestly a “failure of process” or did it just upset those people who feel like you have earned the right to have influence over it. Entitlement and territory often play into these issues, to act like they don’t would be simplistic at best.
2) “I think it’s unfair to expect candidates to post every idea with every post or else berate them for having no plan.”
I never asked for that.
What specifically would you have done differently in THIS situation? I didn’t ask for your plan on everything, or your 10 point plan for business. You chose to weigh in on this issue and did so in a manner that felt a little politically opportunistic without offering the alternative on THIS issue. How would the results be different.
It is not at all unfair to be asked to back up your position on a specific issue when you choose to chime in on it.
3) Which name calling are you referring to? Were you called names or just the incumbents? Is it OK for the incumbents to be called names by your supporters because you are running against them.
4) In regards to the design, are these committees the same ones who chose to put hitching posts in newhall with the new streetscape… you know, for all of the horse traffic? If so I’ll be honest, I for one am OK with this design being left in less, how shall I say, Hokey, hands.
5) You may very well be right that those people are bad people and need to be replaced. It would then be your job (or anyone else running) to convince us that you are the RIGHT replacement, not just “A” replacement.
Most often challengers spend so much time working to show people the flaws of the incumbents that we never get a chance to even see what makes the challenger more desirable, at some level they are merely presenting themselves as an option to have someone new sit in the chair. You leave us with a decision of the devil you know vs the one you don’t.
I didn’t think it looked anything like a ski lodge till I google imaged “Ski lodge” Now I think he has a point
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=Ski+lodge&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=g4g-m2&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
Johnny,
Much more like it: http://images.google.com/images?client=safari&rls=en&q=craftsman+architecture&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=qQysS4CyKIKKswOS0riFDA&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCAQsAQwAw#start=0&imgtbs=tl&imgtype=photo&tbo=1
Mike those are some nice Ski Lodges too! LOL
One might think that Jeff J might be a little gracious when a poster with some gravitas and panache like David Gauny posts an informed opinion about a topic of interest.
One would be wrong.
Put my Gauny bumper sticker on this afternoon. Wish Berta Gonzalez-Harper would run in two years.
I didn’t realize I wasn’t allowed an opinion on an issue. Also didn’t realize that Mr. Gauny was running for king, according to your position.
Your statement would certainly run counter to his contention that he is tired of the people not being heard. I would hope he doesn’t agree with your take on this.
My point was that there was nowhere near enough info in his post to call it an informed position, and that it did nothing to show us how he would have handled the matter differently. All reasonable questions. But I guess if I don’t agree with your guy on a given issue I am automatically a bad guy.
I voted via my permanent absentee ballot for David Gauny. You can go to http://www.electdavidgauny.com and find out more about him so that you can make an informed decision before you vote.
David has some very fine people supporting him and volunteering their time to his campaign. Check him out for yourself…
Good for you for voting at all! Regardless of who you vote for or whether we agree on the choices it’s good that you care enough to bother.
I know that Mr. Gauny has fine people supporting him, and I have checked him out. I don’t think he’s a bad guy, but deep down I don’t think any of them are really bad people. Some just get off course.
For the record if Frank Ferry or really any of the other candidates had posted on this or another issue and I felt the same way I would ask them the same types of questions. Express the same types of opinions, particularly if I felt that they were being opportunistic on a given topic. I never set out to bash David Gauny in the least, his post just created an honest reaction in me and I spoke on it, period. Nothing more nefarious than that.
Jeff J: Since you have come a little late to the party, I would like to offer some background to help get you up to speed.
Yes, few people were talking about the illegal immigration issues before “Kellargate” but Bob Kellar, Roger Gitlin, and others have been trying to get this issue on the radar for years without much interest from anyone, incumbents or not. The recurring response was “it’s a Federal issue”. There are remedies that cities have at their disposal but there must be the will of the elected officials to pursue them.
Those attacking Bob over his comments, taken completely out of context, underestimated the reaction of the residents to this attempt to publicly flog Bob. Once “they” understood that this is an issue, and “we” were not going to sit still while “they” vilified a decent public servant like Kellar, some of them decided it was in their best interest to join the cause. I think this blog, in fact, kept the issue going far longer than it otherwise would have.
David Gauny was the only candidate or incumbent who stood by Bob Kellar before it was clear to all parties which way the wind was blowing on this issue and stated his own views clearly. In other words, he stood on principle not potential votes. He never “embraced” the SOS group but rather the issue of illegal immigration. In fact, he made it clear he did not agree with their tactics and disavowed some of their key leaders. These are some “facts” you should research before making decisions regarding David’s character.
As a footnote, I have voted in EVERY election since the first time I was eligible to vote many years ago. As a first generation American, a child of legal immigrants to this great nation, it was instilled in me early on that voting is a privilege and a responsibility not be abdicated to “someone else”. I was taught to do my own research, educate myself on the candidates and issues, and then vote. I am proud to support David Gauny.
Good for you Petz. I’m going with Gauny too!
Petz, you honor me!
Unfortunately, I have many more detractors than fans.
I understand why, and in fact I’m proud of it. I am missing the gene that dictates whether you can play nice with unethical liars or keep silent when you see jackals attacking an innocent victim.
Thanks for your encouragement!
Well Berta, while I appreciate you “bringing me up to speed” I am not late to the party, merely late to this blog, I’m sure someone as informed as you obviously are can distinguish the difference. I’m sure you can also see where this continued “late to the party” rhetoric starts to sound a little bit entitled as if someone newly joining a conversation is not allowed a voice. This is not unlike the complaints about the current city council only listening to their interests. It is also not unlike the way Mr. Ferry reacted towards Mr. Boydston at a particular council meeting. And I am sure that is not your intent.
As for the immigration issue, I agree with you whole heartedly that Mr. Kellar’s words have been taken out of context and blown far out of proportion, I think they were an ill advised choice of words and I disagree with his fundamental position on the issue but I also agree that he has been at that fight for a while and is, IMO, a good and decent person.
I disagree with your take on the timing of entering the issue with Mr. Gauny, but we’ll have to agree to disagree regarding his or other candidates motives on this particular hot button issue. We do essentially agree on Mr. Kellar’s position in all of it though.
I also don’t agree with you regarding how much this city will be able to impact this specific issue, but human nature says we aren’t going to agree on everything.
I appreciate your efforts at “educating” me, but again, I’m not oblivious to it merely because I haven’t been posting about it on this blog.
I think you seem like a well educated, studied and reasonable individual and should be proud of both your heritage and your voting record. And if your conclusion in doing your research is to back David Gauny, or anyone else for that matter, you should do it proudly. Again, none of these ideas are being threatened by my right to ask questions and have a dialogue with an individual about what they bring to the table.
Jeff J: Whether a newcomer to this blog or blogging since inception, you have every right to your opinion, whether I agree or not, and to ask questions and I would be the first to take on anyone who insinuated differently.
It appeared to me as though you came out with guns blazing first, making some incorrect assumptions regarding David, and then asking questions.
I believe that if you wanted to have a respectful discussion with David he would accommodate you. He has been very forthright on his positions, ideas, etc and I am sorry if you have not had an opportunity to discuss the issues with him. I have at length, and have found him to be a good listener who asks insightful questions, and someone who does not just take my word for it but does his own research before formulating his opinion or taking a position.
Although we do not necessarily agree on everything, after any discussion with David I always leave with the impression I was heard and my idea, opinion or whatever will be honestly considered. I hope you have the chance to get to know David Gauny better, both as a candidate and as a person.
I agree that it looks like a ski lodge. It certainly wouldn’t have been my choice of design.
As usual, David Gauny makes sense. If you are going to set up committees and establish a process for approval, then abide by it.
On the subject of the election: The “devils we know” are never to be seen on this board or any other that I know of. They are quietly resting on their backsides, counting their PAC money while David patiently addresses the rude and rambunctious crew at SCVTalk. If his demeanor here is any indication, he will make a far superior council person to anyone currently in that position.
Good luck, David.
How ironic that owners of businesses and shops that look like crap are experts on architecture. Isn’t it really the fact that if they kept that area up better and made more investment in their properties that taxpayer money wouldn’t have to be spent fixing that area up? It’s like someone comes to the trailer park to paint your trailer and you complain about the paint color. And weren’t all those people against the library because they wanted the city to instead use the tax dollars to fix up the fronts of their buildings? Oh and what a surpsise that Gauny has nothing but criticism, he’s got to jump on a new bandwagon.
Sadly, what it all comes down to is the fact that when it comes time to vote about 10% of the town shows up and the other 90% wonders why we have problems! The other issue is that there is a major shortage of people running for any type of elected position that really care about doing what is best for the community, and does not get involved in pet projects and exchanging favors. As soon as something they ‘stand for’ upsets some people they bail on their orginal beliefs.
Very much agree with your take SCVgrl, it is a frustration I share.
For instance I do think that MANY people get into politics for the right reasons, with the absolute BEST of intentions. When they get there something often sidetracks them from their original vision, whether it be frustration at not being able to beat the political machine that they have now become a part of and then giving up hope and passion, or just being drawn into the allure of the benefits of this new position and power… either way the outcome is too often the same.
The fact is that elections at a grander level are often not that much different than they were in elementary school, junior or senior high school. They revolve an awful lot around name recognition & popularity, and the candidates still spend much of their time promising things that they’d like to do but that are outside of the scope of power of the office to deliver.
For someone who may have helped orchestrate the whole immigration kerfluffle by posting misleading and inflammatory videos on Youtube, it is beyond the pale to accuse David Gauny of grandstanding on this issue.
For anyone who attended the rally-they heard Mr. Gauny say this issue is about policy-not people. He had the courage to stand alone as the one candidate who spoke out on this issue.
David Gauny has earned our respect and vote on April 13.
Wait, are you saying I posted a video of him on youtube? I’m confused. If that is what you are saying then you are one paranoid conspiracy theorist. I couldn’t possibly have an opinion about an issue like illegal immigration without being out to get David Gauny, is that what you’re saying?
Wow, the simplicity is stunning. I love the insinuation that I am so insidious as to have some grand agenda lol. I’m not anti David Gauny and I’m certainly not pro Frank Ferry. I would love to see any of the politicians feel even a little bit sincere about an issue.
As for the immigration issue NOBODY had anything to say about it publicly except for Mr. Kellar until after it became a hot button issue. Once there were votes to be garnered by diving into it everybody wanted some piece of that pie, incumbents included. I’m still waiting to hear which Santa Clarita border to Mexico that all of these people are flooding in from. And what our local city politicians are actually able to offer to tackle the issue other than rhetoric.
I would also wager that if any of us lived in situations as dire as many of these people did in Mexico, and we were not able to immigrate legally we would do the exact same thing to save our families and find them better opportunities.
It’s easy to say “It’s about policy, not people,” because that helps us to feel less callous about the situation, but it is about people no matter which way you spin it. It is not an issue that can be tackled without being about people.
Since we are now re-designing the library to look less like a ski lodge, I propose we nix the fireplace idea. That is practical for maybe 1 month out of the year. In my experience the Canyon Country Library is normally stuffy and warm so I can’t imagine the need for a fireplace!!