Someone at KHTS didn’t get the memo that the Dunamis Group’s 6th Annual Mayors Prayer Breakfast is supposed to be a barely-religious ceremony in which community leaders and dignitaries gather round a stack of flapjacks and pray -in a lowest common denominator sort of way- for the good of our schools, city, state and country:
There are Jewish people in this town you know. In leadership positions even. I know, crazy right?
There are also Mormons who consider themselves to be Christian (but some of their fellow Christians would likely dispute that in private). Then, of course there are “Others,” like me, who don’t really pray but are constantly sending good vibrations to Valencia Blvd, Sacramento and DC.
Understand, I don’t want to be too hard on KHTS. After all, every get together in this town is about business networking, Christian, charity gala or otherwise.
But it’s nice to see the truth laid bare about the Mayors Prayer Breakfast for once. It’s not about creating a local theocracy as some on the left say, or praying for our leaders to be wise and just as the MPB’s supporters say.
It’s about business networking, Christian style!
Jeff, If you have a problem with this particular event, why don’t you hold your own event and call it whatever the heck you want. It’s a free country the last time I checked. Stop trying to drum up readership with this issue.
Cheap and baseless attempt at a shot there, Kevin. Misstating the previously stated “goal” of the event, and giving people the impression that Christian networking is the sole reason to attend excludes anyone not of that particular faith. If you can’t see that, then you perhaps need to……pray harder?
And how would this post drum up readership?
Right, if you’ve seen this post, you’re already a reader.
NIce
And how would this post drum up readership?
It will irritate the lapsed Catholic/ Jewish atheists to no end so that they will be stirred to leave snarky comments whining about the dreaded tyranny of the Christian right and how their iron fists have come to grip the SCV so as to shackle uppity women to their stoves and drive the gays back into their closets.
So far it appears to be working.
I am glad you agree that the tyranny of Christianity is a problem.
This is not and never was a nation founded on Christianity.
I am getting tired of the theocratic pressure brought against the citizens who just want to be left alone in a secular nation, as our founders intended!
Keep the politics out of this breakfast and any National Prayer Day also!
Brain,
I recommend you read Paul Johnson’s “A History of the American People.” The first chapter which is over 100 pages will dispel the progressive myth that America was not founded on Christianity. The entire representative system is designed after Presbyterian/Congregational Church polity.
There is no theocratic pressure from anyone. Such is paranoia on your part. You should be much more concerned with leftist tyranny that wishes, for example, to hoist ridiculous environment regulations upon us. I am already feeling the effects of such legislation because the cost of my medication for asthma has increased three-fold in the last year or so. All for the reason of keeping the world green.
Fred should just read what the founding fathers said… how they detested Christianity and said the world would be better off without this cancer.
That sounds like a Dan Barker comment. Give us some citations to look at.
Who else do you want?
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If by religion we are to understand sectarian dogmas, in which no two of them agree, then your exclamation on that hypothesis is just, “that this would be the best of worlds if there were no religion in it.”
– Thomas Jefferson, in a reply to John Adams’ letter, quoted by Joseph Lewis in his address “Jefferson the Freethinker,” delivered at a banquet of the Freethinkers’ Society of New York on the evening of April 13th, 1925, at Hotel Belleclaire, 77th Street and Broadway, New York City, in honor of the 182nd anniversary of the birth of Thomas Jefferson.
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Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
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Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814
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Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between church and State.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802
Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
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Say nothing of my religion. It is known to my god and myself alone.
– Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to John Adams, 11 January 1817, in Lester Cappon, ed. The Adams-Jefferson Letters, (1959) p. 506, quoted from Jeremy Koselak, “The Exaltation of a Reasonable Deity: Thomas Jefferson’s Critique of Christianity”
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I trust there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian.
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to Waterhouse, June 26, 1822
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“I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord..”
-Adolph Hitler
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DI,
you are citing Thomas Jefferson, who we all know had hang-ups with religion at the outset. Moreover you are responding to personal letters and private lectures. To solidify the argument, you need to provide some additional voices who were there at the formation of the nation, and who spoke in an official capacity on behalf on the true feeling of the government.
I love me some pancakes and christianity!
mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm.
May I suggest you read the Treaty of Tripoli in which John Adams states that this nation was not founded on Christian principles.
Now if you care to go rounds, I will find the quotes of Washington, Jefferson and Franklin which state the same.
Now what is the problem in quietly keeping your beliefs to oneself?
Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
John Adams
“Now what is the problem in quietly keeping your beliefs to oneself?”
Historically, Christians have never been able to do this. They have gone so far as to raise armies and attempt to conquer other lands, and to persecute those who do not share their peculiar beliefs.
Waitasec, I am mixing up Christains with radical Muslims… or am I? Hard to tell from behavior, I admit.
Franklin Graham just became available for the breakfast.
Brian, all founders either were Christian or deists with Christian leanings. This is a fact. What the founders were worried about was one denomination squashing all others and taking full control like the Church of England. In no way, shape or form did the founders actually want to take religion out of the public square. Far from it. Religious freedom is freedom.
There are many quotes, but this is one of my favorites and I think it puts much in perspective. It was made by Patrick Henry:
““It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.”
They also believe bleeding people would cure yellow fever… we should give that a try.
Perhaps a treaty ratified by 100% of the congress stating that WE ARE NOT founded on Christian principles is over your head.
What is the problem? It’s in English and the founders said it?
We are not all Christian or even have a desire to be governed as such. Take your religious tyranny and please share it amongst like minded people. Any further argument just makes the case that religion desires to govern us all according to ancient goatherder mentalities.
I prefer the 21st century even if you don’t!
Brain, you’re just wrong about this. It is speaking to the government, which is a secular republic not favoring one denomination (or religion) over the other. Like the other commenter stated, all these men recognized the significance of Christianity in the founding and establishment of the American colonies and eventual nation. In no fashion did the want religion removed from the being influential in the U.S. It’s pure enlightenment B.S.
Please learn to properly spell my name Fred. It can’t be too difficult. 5 letters.
Religion breeds hate and discontent. Do we need any more of that? I really don’t need social engineering based on hearsay passed on by illiterate goatherders high on whatever they did back then.
Evolve!
Sorry Brain,
It does sound like someone has the Dan Barker “How to Hate God” handbook and is running it play by play.
Brian,
I am sure Jesus was a dick to everyone who disagreed with him too… so please excuse Fred dickish ways and inability to spell the simplest of words
Yes. To youngish, self righteous blow hards who think they have life figured out, Jesus gave some pretty good smack downs.
Hmmm, wonder why this twenty dollar bill I’m lookin’ is dressed up with “In God We Trust”?
That would be pandering!
“In God We Trust” was added in 1950′s. BTW Bill… our money is full of Pagan symbols!
Percentage-wise less people attended church when this country was founded and we are a better country because of it. Christianity has it place… it is called Church. Relationships with GOD should be a voluntary, private matter. Not legislated on the people.
Why would they do that, Damgenic?
Relationships with GOD should be a voluntary, private matter. Not legislated on the people.
And beliefs in secular junk science, like anthropogenic climate change should be voluntary as well and never legislated say as a “Global Warming Initiative.” Yet it is usually these secular loony ideas that do get laws in support of them and genuinely have a real negative impact in my life, not blue laws and dry counties.
Yeah, and this secular belief in a spherical Earth orbiting the Sun should be thrown out as well, of course.
BTW, Damgenie… “In God We Trust” was first used on American money back in 1864. Guess why “they” added that motto?
The phrase has been on coins since the Civil War. It was first introduced onto paper money in 1957 after a law was passed by Congress in 1956 declaring In God We Trust as the National Motto of the United States (Speculation about that law being enacted to combat Communism still prevails). Here’s the scoop from the US Treasury website:
http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml
Not taking sides in the money debate, just providing the facts for consumption.
And it really has nothing to do with whether or not a group who focuses on a single demoninational ideology has our civic leaders in the palms of their hands or not.
Yeah, and the world is flat too!
Best dialogue ever. Wish I could bookmark it. Brian has been added to my list of heros.
The Dunamis Group is a Christian business group and has been for quite a while (If I’m not mistaken). I’m not taking sides, but if they’re footing the bill and the Mayor and others wish to participate, it’s not a tough call as to whether it conflicts with our constitutional foundations of the separation of church and state. Interestingly enough, there are a lot of good arguments above and it’s good to know that both sides are actually doing some research.
While we don’t want government dictating which god we worship, we can’t stop leaders from worshipping their god of choice either, can we? Looks like a privately sponsored event to me with its participants making their own free choice to attend.
Now that being said, it might be a bit daunting to know that so many of our community leaders feel compelled to participate in a privately sponsored event that embodies a singular religious mindset that appears to only cater to one brand of faith. While this event obviously isn’t open to Christians only, I wonder how many community leaders and/or locals of other faiths will show up to participate? Seriously. This isn’t a jab, I’d be curious to know.
Lastly, I don’t believe I’ve ever met a Catholic/Jewish athiest!
no one has noticed the erroneous apostrophe in “Mayor’s”, which has offociallt been excised.
The article is simply factually incorrect today in describing the officlal status of this event.
But it is consistent with its true, though now somewhat underground purpose.
Sad.
If I may leave a little thought. I echo one of the previous remarks: this is put on by the Dunamis Group and it seems to me they are simple trying to be honest with their “goal.” They “invited” the mayors and other community leaders. Praise the Lord (yes, Praise the Lord) that this still is a free country and different groups can hold their own breakfast or lunch or dinner (Jewish, Atheists, or Mormon). Hey, maybe some homeschool moms will get together and hold one for the female leaders. One last thing, what are “good vibrations” (a song just keeps coming into my head).
I couldn’t resist…
Good catch, Spinef! The actual flyer on the scvpb.com website say “Mayors Prayer Breakfast” and displays “Invited Guests” as leaders from various parts of our fine valley. I don’t know if that’s a KHTS typographical error or a clever piece of subliminal marketing by the advertiser to infer that it is actually OUR Mayor’s prayer breakfast. We may never know!
Yes we do…
Wink, wink…Nudge, nudge…Say no more!
A little history for some of you lefty anti-Christian folks.
The Dunamis Group was started by Joe Messina, your Hart School Board elected official (who has now children in our public schools by the way). It was started when (I believe) Cameron Smyth was Mayor and did start off with the pretense that is was the Mayor’s (note apostrophe) Breakfast. The group took a lot of heat for that and has since changes the name.
It WAS started to be a Christian’s Men’s Business group and the breakfast WAS started for Christians, but has expanded to include others – IMHO – to grow the group and make it more popular.
As for KHTS, give ‘em a break. Like this website is always right, LMAO
DamageInc – you are taking our founders quotes way out of context. It wasn’t about “Christianity” – it was about “Faith” and the importance of it with out founders. It was based under the principle that a higher power [above Gov't] was what gave us our inalienable rights and that with that understanding the Gov’t would never have the power to take those away from us.
Almost everyone of the signers of the Declaration and the Constitution were Christian – but they saw the importance of “FREEDOM OF RELIGION” – whether that means Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or atheism.
But in no way did it mean that we only teach the latter in our schools. Which is what has happened.
* Side note on Dunamis – I am a Christian and can’t stand this group – too many hypocrites like Joe Messina, Tyler Shaw, Chris Jacobsen in it – All Christian hypocrites who don’t know the first thing about serving God in their businesses. I am speaking first hand in dealing with all three of these people.