Only in Valencia Summit would people actually have a problem with a children’s swim team. Of all the things to bitch and moan about!
Of course we’ve only heard from one side, but if the allegations are true that one faction of the HOA has hired a PI to document swim meets, then this is truly NIMBYism gone mad.
Unless there’s something else going on. Interesting speculation from one reader:
I heard that the CFO of Henry Mayo recently joined the board of the condo association called the Stratfords. Does anyone know if this is true? If so, is this whole thing payback against the Summit residents for their opposition to the G & L project?
Wouldn’t that be fun!
Edit: The Seals (the swim team) have a Facebook page and many are discussing the possible HOA/HMNMH Connection.
Yes- the CFO of Henry Mayo Hospital, Bob Hudson, is on the board for the Stratford HOA. They are trying to eliminate the swim team and no one knows why. In this day and age of trying to fight childhood obesity and promote healthy lifestyles, why on earth would he be behind shutting down a program that brings nothing but good to our community? Many children have been inspired to swim year round from this 6 week neighborhood swim team. The program connects older teenagers with the little ones and teaches them all respect for the community and each other. It is shameful to be a part of shutting down a program that brings nothing but good- how dare he? Is this reflective of how the hospital feels about the children of its’ community?
The tenants should band together and gather signatures and call the press. Nothing works faster than bad press. The children are obviously pawns in some other vendetta or political game. When the pool was built they knew children, teens and adults would swim there. Why worry about the liability now? Would they rather the children band together and tag fences? Or maybe throw rocks at passing motorist? We all know a child’s mind needs to be occupied with positive reinforcement not left for their own devices. I sincerely hope you let your voices ring as one as you pay to live there!
You really need to write up one of those detailed reports providing the background to the issue. Throw in some interactive Google maps highlighting the neighborhood’s development, too. At this point, I am sympathetic to the swim club.
The only drama I experience with my HOA in Canyon Country is the swimming pool “cop” checking to see if my 2 year old is wearing a swimmer pull-up.
I agree, the ‘story’ is written for those that already know what the issue is. For the rest of us, it is just another attack by Jeff regarding a neighborhood.
Well…
I don’t see Jeff’s comments as an attack. I genuinely am interested in the background of why there is all this hate being spread around.
CC:
I don’t see the defense of this. It is “get off my lawn” 21st Century style!
Based on this story, you are able to conclude that? Interesting, but not surprising.
I don’t presume to know the reason behind the HOA wanting to eliminate the program since I’m not on that board and certainly Bob is not the sole member. I can say, however, that Bob Hudson would not punish the children because of the actions of the adults. Bob is a good friend and with all he does I know he is above that. BTW, I am in total disagreement with him on the office building expansion.
I agree. This does not sound like something Bob Hudson would do. It DOES, however, sound like something Cam Noltemeyer would do as revenge for getting driven off the Summitt HOA board, mainly at the behest of the Summit swim group since she balked at heating the pools in the wintertime.
Maybe the former leadership of the Summit swim team? This is a volunteer organization so the board changes every few years. The current board (for the past 2 years) is very neutral and refuses to get involved with anything political. They wouldn’t help with removing Cam from office- believe me, we asked!
I think the swimming teams are a great thing. The only issue that I had a few years back was that in my HOA I was not able to rent the clubhouse for a wedding reception on a Saturday evening as the swim team had the reservation for every Saturday during the summer effectively closing everyone else out. I assume the swim team does not pay for the clubhouse usage. Perhaps this is the issue at the Summit?
I have no doubt there are a few members that feel the swim team should be paying for the privilege of using the clubhouse. The flip side to that is the clubhouse has always been a community asset that is there for members of the community – not as a revenue generator. My guess is there hasn’t been any meaningful dialogue between the two sides with regard to a reasonable “usage fee” because opinions are so deeply polarized on this issue. Regarding availability, the swim team typically needs two Saturdays during the 6-week season for meets. They’ll generally begin setting up around 7AM the day they host a meet; the meet is over by early afternoon and everything cleaned up to allow a private function (wedding, b-day party) to start as early as 3PM.
I am a Stratford HOA member. I am concerned on two counts:
1) It does appear that the board are set on eliminating the team, despite the team seeming to agree to every condition set by them. I do not pretend to know the full picture, but it seems to me we should be trying to resolve this constructively, for our children’s sake not simply close such a beneficial program down. Unless there is another reason we are not aware of.
2) I want to know exactly how much of my HOA funds have been used to pay for this? As with most HOA members, I don’t attend the meetings (I work full time so am rarely home by 7pm) so there is always a small group of ‘regulars’ who attend. and I am concerned that this spending is not in the best interests of the HOA, which is already contending with very expensive fees each month. I may be wrong, but it also appears that the minutes of these meetings are not readily available, except on request. My mistake was that I assumed a monthly news letter would cover these issues, and it doesn’t. If nothing else, it’s a lesson to get involved, and not let a select few control everything.
I have lived in SCV for 43 years and my family has been involved in our HOA swim team for 8 years. It is an amazing program that brings the community together, promotes a healthy lifestyle and friendly competition. Trying to shut down such a program would be such a disservice to the community. I think he needs to attend a few practices and meets before butting his head in where it doesn’t belong.
I think this is pretty disgusting. I went to the last Homeowners meeting and the three guys from the stratfords seemed hell bent on closing the team down. One of them said “I don’t care if they all hate us and think we’re miserable old guys, we’re going to shut them down.” There’s a whole gang of them who run the stratfords and they are careful about what they let the other residents see and hear – and shame on us, none of us care enough to look into it as long as our lawns are cut and our houses painted. This is more about them being annoyed at the noise and cars and disruption that the meets cause to their ‘quiet neighborhood’ than any real concern over insurance – the team has been going for 20 years without incident for goodness sake. It’s no coincidence that Hudson and Jagielo come to the board recently and then they start this campaign. The funny things is that we (stratfords) have our own pools and spas inside our gated community, plus the other 3 in the summit that are unused during the swim meet. It just seems very, very wrong to me that a few people can damage a community like this. I wish more people would see it and stand up and vote to push these people out of office come election time. and by the way, my money should be going to reduce my HOA fees, not to fund an attack by a minority of homeowners who dont want kids annoying them.
Dodgers Fan- you should ask your Stratford board why the President, Kevin Jagielo, videotaped the Summit Seals children and teenagers for 2 1/2 hours at the registration last Saturday? He and another guy sat in a little white car parked facing the registration tables wearing sunglasses and videotaped the kids and teenagers. It was freaky!
BTW, would the CFO of Henry Mayo hospital approve of that? Videotaping and intimidating the families?
Curious if anyone has pictures of them doing this. I don’t doubt you, but it would be great to be able to post any photos.
Yes- let me figure out how to post?
Send the photos to jeff.wilson@gmail.com.
After I posted the above, there are two photos on the facebook fan page linked here. But it is a vague, white car. You need a close up. And a camera lens sticking out the window gives you extra points.
Someone took a video of them being challenged – Post it on the FB page and tell us on here when it’s up. Let’s see it.
it’s already up
Hey? isn’t this behavior grounds for a harassment lawsuit? – If all the demands by the Stratfords have been met, and they refuse to meet with the Swim team board, but video our kids… isn’t that harassment and initmidation? – Any lawyers out there want to chip in? can we do anything?
I wish my HOA’s pool was capable of allowing me to do acutal real laps.
Does this have anything to do with HOA liability? Just askin’
Good question- the Seals carry their own $5 million insurance policy from the one of the two top sports insurance carriers in the country naming the Stratford HOA and Summit HOA as additionally insured. In addition, the Seals are a separate non-profit corporation to add another level of protection for the HOA. The coaches are fully certified life guards with CPR for professional lifesavers AND a WSI (Water Safety Instructors) certification. How much more insurance is needed? Just as a reference point, the other HOA teams in the SCV carry a $1 million policy.
The Seals raised the insurance coverage to $ 5 million for a 6 week program… that still was not good enough for the Strafford HOA…the Stratfford HOA has 3 pools that alone is a huge litalibility for therm, they might as well just cement it over…
Shame on the Strafford board for what they are doing…, their main goal has always been to shut down a kids 6 week summer swimming program. In the Strafford minutes of February 24, 2010 it states …the president informed the community that the board has been discussing to eliminate the association swim team/ the president listed the reasons as to why the board wanted to get rid of the team and the community members present were in agreement with the board. Some of the main reasons are the cost involved and the overly use of the common area pool…
As you can see it’s about eliminating the swim team… FYI the Summit Seals is self funded and are incorporated, they do not take any money from any association they also have a $ 5 million insurance policy (not sure how much is enough). As far as overuse of the facility, what better way to use the facility then to have kids enjoy it, learn to swim,… why even have a pool, I guess they want to have it but no one uses it..
Actually, Alan- the minutes showing that the board’s intent was to eliminate the swim team was from a year ago- February 2009! They’ve spent hours and $$$ of the Summit board’s time to come to an agreement when it was always their intent to “eliminate the team”.
sorry 2009.
I live in the Stratfords. My son swims on the team and loves it. I feel this program benefits everyone in both HOAs. Everyone, in both HOAs, has the choice to have their kids on or not on the team. I feel being on a team is so important for kids. This team, parents, coaches–everyone are so loving, helpful and giving. The good behavior, character and sportmanship of the team is teaching him how to be a good part of a community.
Having a team like this is also such good way for our community to get together and meet as neighbors. It is a perfect way to enjoy what we all work very hard to have—a beautiful neighborhood.
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It makes me very sad that the summit seals swim team may be taken away from the summit. My family moved to the summit a few years ago and many of our neighbors suggested we join the swim team to meet more neighbors. It turned out to be a great experience not only was i able to stay in shape, but i also had a lot of fun and made everlasting friendships. The seals has impacted me in a positive way that i dont know what i would do without it. Its a good way to keep kids occupied during the summer and have fun doing it.
-Kristi (former summit seal swimmer)
Kristi, why would the seals be taken away from us? From what I read below, everything is perfectly legal and proper.
When I get crotchety enough to make it my mission to shut down a youth swim team can someone please promise to drop me off at the Soylent Green factory?
LOL… that’s funny. We promise, especially if you are videotaping children from a small car!
Great line! I wonder how many of the young readers understand what the Soylent Green factory is?
The membership of the HOA has the power to kick up a fuss and to generate some real negative publicity for the HOA board. Get involved, people!
I don’t know what it is about some older people who get onto the HOA boards. They always seem to focus on the kids. We have an old fart who feeds the squirrels, geese and ducks every morning. It is strictly against the rules for a number of reasons. He breaks that rule cheerfully while he rails on about children who make noise when they’re in the pool. Another fellow ties his dog up in the alley several times a day to let it do its business. Then he takes a hose and washes it down into the gutter. He’s too lazy to put the dog on a leash and walk him out onto the grass. But these are the types of people who always end up on the boards. Sigh.
Save the Seals!!!
This is so very sad. The ironic thing is that if these kids are not involved in the swim team during the summer, they will find other things to occupy their time that may not be as constructive. I really hope that the Seals can get their story into the Signal and generate some public outrage.
I moved to the Summit in 1987. I was one of the inaugural members of the Seals in ’88 and was upset when I was too old to participate when I turned 17. Not only was I a swimmer, but I became an assistant coach for the team, and lifeguard at the “big” pool while the team swam. Swimming keep me healthy, it kept me occupied for an hour every morning during those 6 weeks and, it helped me make lifelong friends. Swimming on the Seals helped me decide to continue my swimming career in high school and college. I swam for both Hart high and COC. Swimming is an amazing stress reliever, a great way to learn the meaning of friendly competition, and a way to learn many tools for kids to build upon. It was an amazing experience being on the Seals and it would be devastating for future generations to be unable to share the experiences I had. The Seals have been a team for 22 years, not only do you learn about your own neighborhood but you meet and learn about the other neighborhoods in the SCV. Don’t let anyone disband the team. Save the Seals!
Here’s the problem, for too many years pro swim team board members have disregarded our CC&R’s which clearly state that these activities are not allowed. Pool rules state diving is not allowed and signs are posted, yet the swim team members dive anyway. Homeowners are required to rent the facilities but the swim team gets a free pass.
As our community has matured, homeowners have become intolerant of the favoritism and encroachment on “homeowners rights of enjoyment” by the entitlement meantality of swim team families which represent less than 10% of the community.
Liability remains a huge issue and it’s unclear that the swim team has proper coverage. The Summit board agreed to suspend swim team activity until a resolution was met and the Summit board promptly violated that agreement by approving a new swim team contract.
These are the facts.
Liability is an issue at everyting we do… just having a pool is a huge liability, so why not just cement that over. How much insurance is enough??? There needs to be a balance between potential liability and the risk.. they have $ 5 million what else do you want. You really say it all when you say the community has matured.. meaning a few angry old men not wanting anyone to have fun… its a 6 week summer program for God’s sake… get a life
It is good to hear from someone other than a swim team family. While there are only 10% of the families in the Summit actively involved at one particular time, there is a significantly higher percentage of homeowners who have been a part of the team at one time and their children have “aged out”. But, they continue to remain supportive of the team.
Also, the Stratford HOA board uses the Summit clubhouse exclusively for their meetings at least 12 times per year and does not pay a time to reserve and tie up the room. They also leave the room set up for a board meeting which requires an extra maintenance cost. The swim team uses the clubhouse 4-5 times per year and always leaves the facilities nicer and cleaner than they were before we got them. So, isn’t it the Stratford HOA that is getting the preferential treatment and feels entitled to the clubhouse?
The diving rule is established because the pool has no lifeguards. The signs say “No Diving” and “No Lifeguard On Duty”. As a swim team, they hire certified life guards who are poolside at all times. They only teach diving from the deep end and they teach proper diving techniques per the American Swimming Association. All insurance carriers recognize the difference between diving in a supervised competitive swim environment and the untrained careless diving that happens in the shallow end.
It is my understanding that the swim team has responded to every demand the Summit HOA has put before them. They are trying tirelessly to make this small group of homeowners happy.
As my son asked the other day, isn’t a waveless junior olympic pool supposed to be used for competetive swimming?
OK, but there are new boards, with new people. Just because (allegedly) past boards have behaved like this, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try. Behavior breeds Behavior – Take the high ground if this is what you think. Have you approached them about this directly to raise these issues? No. You approached the Summit HOA, then slapped a legal gag order on them so they could not discuss it with the Swim team board. Hardly seems the right way to resolve an issue does it. Why don’t you TALK to the swim team board directly – they are a legal entity. If your issue is with them, talk to THEM. They are reasonable people. Isn’t it true they have already cut out about 50% of the kids activities this year just to appease you? No diving, no Pool Polo, no championship meets, early finishing on training sessions so ‘we’ can use the pool after work etc.etc.etc. They have bent Why wont you work to find a compromise? do you realize you are fracturing this community by refusing to engage?
Encroachment on “homeowners rights of enjoyment”??? Are you serious??? If that’s the case, then my rights of enjoyment and those of other families have been violated by this very small minority group whose mission is to dismantle the only real community activity in the Summit. It’s been suggested that the existence of a community-based swim program should be put through an expensive voting process. Bring it on. It’s also been alleged that the swim team was the force behind a successful recall and voting in “pro-swim team board members”. If that were true, then why would the outcome be any different than a referendum for a community summer swim program?
Save the Seals!
The Seals 6-week summer swim program has touched an estimated 350 families in the Summit and Stratford communities over the past 20 years. That equates to roughly 700-800 kids during that period. Expenses for coaches, insurance (now $5M), equipment, food, swim suits, ribbons and trophies, etc are paid from the pockets of the swim team members plus a few donations from local businesses. Pool usage as a team is less than 1% of the total available pool hours. For the past 8-9 years, the program employs coaches who used to swim for the Seals in their youth. These young leaders are so passionate about the program that they pass over higher paying job opportunities such as city or county lifeguards so they can help mold the character of the kids in our community. In prior years and before the harassment started, the Seals swim program would get involved with projects like the Children’s Hunger Defense Fund. Fundraising at local eateries – where a certain percentage of the proceeds are rolled back into the swim program to cover expenses – provides an excellent venue for families within our community to get to know each other as well as supporting our local businesses and economy. And words cannot express the feelings a parent gets seeing the look and excitement in a child’s face as they receive their respective recognition at the season ending awards ceremony. It’s unfortunate that this small minority is hell bent on destroying the only real community organized program without investing a couple of hours of their personal time to experience what the swim program is about. I guess they figure taking pictures of our kids and families while hiding in a car in the parking lot gives them everything they care to understand about the program.
It’s not like there are no other swimming facilities within our wonderful city. Haven’t we all contributed to an outstanding aquatic center? Maybe if the swim team paid for its use instead of taking advantage of the community, they might be more appreciated. But no, “they” have an entitlement attitude. At a board meeting, I’m told that one young woman scolded the older folks and told them to move to retirement homes. This is not helpful.
Why would homeowners that live there that pay dues and have every right to use the facility go to the aquatic center, there is no taking advantage of the community. Every one of those kids that have gone through the program has a feeling of pride and respect for the HOA… on many occasiosn, I have seen swim team mmebrs and fomer swim team members make sure that our facility is protected, kept clean and make sure no one damages it or jumps the fence..this program is much more than about swimming..its about turning out amazing individuals that will go on to make a difference..swim team has positively affected hundreds of lives.
Uhhh….
1) I was at that meeting and the “young woman” who scolded the older folks about the retirement community is not swim team parent and has never had children on the swim team. Perhaps you all are being more offensive to more than just swim team families with your anti-family agenda?
2) You do realize we all pay dues and are allowed to swim in our HOA pools whether the swim team has a contract with the HOA or not? And we are allowed to invite 6 guests so maybe that would take care of the 2 swim meets we host each year that are over by noon?
3) Neighborhood means “Neighborhood”- imagine the kids riding their bikes 6.7 miles to the crowded Aquatic Center with strangers all over. Or they can walk to their neighborhood pool and be productive? Oh, but wait…there are videographers in cars with out of state plates. Maybe walking to the Aquatic Center would be safer.
Summit Resident:
I am turning 50 this summer and could you please tell me at what age you got so crotchety and negative so that I can make my appointment in advance for the Soylent Green factory?
And by the way there are 3 OTHER POOLS in the area which are not used by the Swim team. Including one INSIDE OUR STRATFORD COMMUNITY that noone in the Summit HOA uses. Why don’t you go to one of them instead of picking on families who are trying to do something constructive with our kids.
Save the children? Woe is me, the Summit is going to hell in a handbasket!!!
What is this world coming to when a small group of privileged homeowners can’t use the main pool to the exclusion of all others, rent the clubhouse for free and put all of the Summit homeowners at risk by allowing diving in the pool?
Too funny.
The funny thing about this comment is how uninformed you are. The Seals are a separate Legal entity. all the liability lies with them, not us. It’s about time we got our facts straight and got the TRUE INFORMATION out in the open I think. It’s interesting how the Stratford board claim to have tired mediation, but never engaged (Or tried to) with the Swim team Board. They were not even allowed to participate in the discussions. This is just a few people’s mean spirited agendas masquerading as ‘concerned HOA members.
Mr. Hoffman, out of curiosity: if the swim team is indeed a separate entity, why then is the Summit Board continuing to spend tens of thousands of HOA dollars on legal fees defending the swim team? Talk about a funny thing.
Homey, I’m not sure where you got your information as to how much the Summit HOA has spent on legal fees on this matter. If you got them from a board member of the Summit HOA, or its management company, then it must be correct. It also means that the Summit’s books are much more open than are the Stratford books regarding this matter. A Stratford member has continually been put off by their board when he inquires as to how much is being spent. They say it’s a legal matter and not available to the members. I’m glad to hear that the Summit HOA board is far more transparent than is the Stratford HOA board. As to why they are “defending” the matter, it’s simple. They have approved a contract with the swim team. They are defending their right, as a board, to enter into contracts. I’m sure the Stratford board’s concerns have been heard and noted. Nonetheless, the contract was voted on and approved, the same as any other contract that comes before them. What if I don’t like the contract they approved for the common area maintenance, or the janitorial service? Should I just up and sue them?
well, I am trying to be rational about this, but no-one at the Stratford HOA board will even tell me how much of my fees have been spent on pursuing this issue to date. and I have been asking politely for the last 2 months for a figure. I would think as a member of the HOA I would be entitled to that simple answer. The latest response is ‘come to the June 16th meeting’. I never thought it would be so hard to find out how my board, who are representing my needs, in my community, is spending my money. I am quite frightened to find out just how much of my money has been siphoned into this project – a lot more than we suspect. Plus the damage it will do to any parties in the entire summit (stratford and other) who want to sell their properties, with a pending legal action. I can assure you I will not rest until I know how much this is costing me.
why don’t you talk to the swim team and ask them in the open then, instead of hiding behind the “Summit HOA’ won’t address this. And how much money are YOU spending on an action that is destroying a community institution. Shouldn’t you be working to put our HOA fees down instead? it’s is funny how one note you sound.
Wasn’t that your plan? To make the Summit HOA spend so much money and then stir up your small group of followers to get peopel mad about that?
priviliged??? the pool is not closed during practice…there is at least one lane always open for lap swimmers, the jacuzzi is open the baby pool is open the deck is open, the BBQ ‘s are open…and FYI there are 3 other pools within walking distance that are open.. plus 3 other Stratford pools that are open..that makes 6 pools and you still complain.How does the Strafords prevent diving.. by putting up a sign.. yeah that works well.. the seals at least have trained lifeguards and diving is only from the deep end…
and which is ALL paid for by the swim team parents. noone who is not participating has to pay any costs for the activity. Which is yet MORE misinformation spread by the Stratford board in their attempts to scare people into agreeing with them.
Timothy Myers, I have read your columns, thus it’s obvious that you are past due for the Soylent Green factory.
Summit Resident:
As my wise grandfather once said there is a cure for every problem EXCEPT for being an Adam Henry.
I miss diving boards
This isn’t an old vs. young issue- this is an issue of being a good neighbor. I’m at the pool watching over the swim team and can say that I see nothing but respect and concientious behavior. We are working hard to do something good in this community and we are being portrayed as beligerant, entitled, destructive people. A pastor told me years ago, to only be FOR something, not AGAINST something. I have taken this to heart with the team because I see nothing but good come from it. Many of our swimmers have been inspired to swim year round, in high school, at national levels, in college, just for good exercise, because of the amazing experience they have in this 6 week neighborhood swim program. It connects the kids of all ages as the older kids learn to take leadership roles and mentor the younger kids. It teaches them responsibility. It gives many children a purpose and direction. We develop good, strong swimmers which you would think would actually lessen the neighborhood risk. Summit children and families meet and become good friends in a big neighborhood where we would most likely never know each other as many go to different schools. These kids form bonds with kids at different schools so they have a good healthy base of friends when they reach junior high and high school. Most of our swimmers grow in to very successful young adults and credit much of their success and grounding on their families and the time with the Seals.
This isn’t a bad thing- it is a good thing. And something to be FOR, not against.
Regarding exclusive use, the only time we have exclusive use of the pool is 2 Saturday mornings a year when we have our meets. During practices, I personally greet the few swimmers who come in wanting to swim laps or play. I usually offer them water, and personally walk them to the poolside so I can show them the open areas. There are very few people who use the pool in the late afternoon but those who do, seem very happy with our program and the hospitality we show.
For those 2 mornings we have meets, please know we are very thankful for the use of the pool and the opportunity to show our children and Valencia HOA (OOI, OOII, and Valencia Hills) neighbors how friendly and hospitable our Summit is.
But Holly:
What about the clenched anuses of the complainers!
A spoonful of soylent green should clear that up.
Thank you Holly for saying everything I feel also. I am FOR THE SUMMIT SEALS
Perhaps it’s about time the Stratford board came out of hiding and participated in a public meeting about this. We could hire an independant moderator, and bring in the Summit,Swimteam and Stratford board, and run it like a presidential debate. members of the public can attend, ask questions and decide for themselves what the real facts are and we can all make a decision based on that. How about it. If all the facts and issues are genuine and real, there should be nothing to be afraid of eh? Let’s see you stand in the light, and in public and make your case to EVERYONE. I think that’s the way a democratic process should work. Don’t you?
They are scared little men, bullies.. that hide behind their video cameras, and threats and intimidation…typical bullies, picking on a great community activity, trying to take away joy from others. These guys run home and lock all their doors and pull down the shades…adn try to find other ways to make life miserable for others…
yes. It’s funny how they evade the real issues here. 1) How much HOA money they have spent on their own agenda. 2)How they conveniently ignore the facts and just make up their own to suit their own needs. 3) Are determined to stop the kids swimming. We all know this is just a smokescreen.
The community is much better for having a swim team, it brings people together, makes them proud of their community by making sure its value is protected and that in the long run makes our community a place you want to come home to. Who wants to come to place where your kids can’t swim in the community pool or are hassrased by some crazies on the Straford HOA board with video cameras or are constanly threatend by lawsuits and scare tactics..is this the way you want to live…this is insane…
Well said.
We are from Old Orchard 2 and have been a swim family since we moved here in 2001. We have Summit Seal friends, and we love being able to swim with them during summer swim meets. It would be such a disservice to the whole Valencia community to disband the Seal Swim Team.
Really Stratford people get a life!! I would seriously rethink what you are about to undergo. Starting with videotaping underage children, obviously without parental permission. That alone could bring you severe consequences.
This is for our children, they are the future of this community not you!
We are with you Summit Seals!! We will fight this to the end!
Thank you OOII parent, for your support.
Yes! Thank you so much!
A few years back a similiar thing happened in the North Park area. My friend’s daughter was on the team there for years and I can’t remember if the team was finally disbanded. If I remember right the HOA would come up with a requirement which the team would meet but then the HOA would come up with another and another and the team finally gave up, (I think). Maybe a reader here know more of the situation.
I feel bad for the kids.
Ha, I just remember something else my girlfriend told me.
One of the complainers would sneak around the meets taking pictures through the fence. I’m sure she was taking pictures of what she thought was “breaking the rules” but the parents were creeped out by the fact that she was taking pictures of their kids in bathing suits.
Stratford is using the same attorney that the crazies at North Park used..same type of tactics.. intimidation, threats of lawsuits, video taping, unreasonable demands, when the demands are acquiesced, they add more demands… that is the MO…
Yes! the Stratford HOA has hired the same attorney who shut down the North Park swim team. They were a new team and set up a little differently but it sounds like that attorney is giving the Stratford guys the same advice!
Shame on you! Now you’re going after a hospital board member and making insinuating and potentially slanderous accusations against Stratford homeowners. Reading this blog anyone can see the demonization of those who have legitimate issues with the swim team. This is a typical tactic used by those who cannot make an intellectual argument in support of their position. Have a temper tantrum and make accusations to deflect the real issues.
It’s time for a few facts. Those Summit pools have a no diving rule yet irresponsible parents through their swim team activities have taught their children to dive into the 3 foot shallow end of a pool during practice and swim meets. How stupid is that! Do these parents know how many people end up paraplegic or dead every year as a result of diving into a pool? Liability? How much is your child’s life worth? What would you settle for if your child is paralyzed for the rest of their lives or dead? The swim team contract requires all rules and regulations to be met yet swim team parents think they are above rules and regulations and they actually instruct their own children to dive into the shallow end of the pool. This is child endangerment and maybe it would be a good idea to report this activity to proper authorities. I have two family members who are certified life guards and swim instructors. They also have participated in real swim team activities to the point of national competition and record setting. Don’t even say the kids are trained with special abilities for diving into shallow pools. That is NEVER done. Now all you bloggers demonizing those who have issues with the swim team by saying we all hate kids, who in reality has the best interest of the kids at heart? And, the HOA board members know that diving has been going on for years. This current board is spending thousands of homeowner dollars on lawyers to defend the right of the swim team to exist knowing all the while kids are diving in the shallow end of the pool. What are these board members thinking? We are just lucky no one has been injured – yet. Do any of you have a pool in your own yard? Would you allow anyone to dive into the shallow end of your own pool? I doubt you would. Board members are suppose to look out for the interests of all homeowners and not turn a blind eye to rule breaking and dangerous activities and could be found personally liable in the event of an injury or death. The Stratford’s are heroes in my book for bringing to light the irresponsible behavior of the swim team and their parents, for if the result of this dispute saves one child from death or injury then it’s all worth it. Summit pools are great for family fun but it must be responsible fun and rules must be followed.
In response to your concerns, the Seals have already agreed to not dive in the shallow end. So, if this is the case, what continues to be the issue?
What made the Seals agree to not dive any more? It must be the result of the Stratford’s bringing the issue to light? It must mean you agree that it was wrong to allow diving by the kids for so many years. If the Stratford’s were correct on this issue then why continue to demonize them? You should be thanking them for making your children safer.
It’s because they want the kids to swim and have a great season… they don’t want a bunch of bullies to stop a great community activity, to take away joy from others. Bullies.. that hide behind their video cameras, and threats and intimidation…typical bullies. FYI they are diving from the deep end
SCVDAD – Maybe you have not attended a swim meet in the past but I have seen with my own eyes the kids diving in the shallow end of the pool during relay races and I personally know kids who have participated in the relay races. You have misstated the facts.
The Seals changing their diving policy was for no other reason than to be responsive to a concern by the Stratford board (among many other changes that they’ve made this year). The team didn’t have to make the change…they have had liability insurance coverage for years with the diving policy as it was. Also, you seem to be equating the diving that goes on at practices and meets with a bunch of drunk teenagers jumping a fence and diving into the pool. What is it that you don’t understand about instruction and supervision? Have you ever been to a practice or meet? Do you think there are kids roaming around doing back flips off the edge, and diving off a stack of chairs, or out of a tree….ah, the craziness that goes on at these events!
Mike – How do I respond to you? Are you saying the swim team is giving up diving out of the goodness of their hearts? What about the relay races? They just decided they didn’t want to participate in that activity any more? Why is the swim team being so accommodating to the Stratford’s while at the same time demonizing them?
No legitimate certified swim instructor would teach children to dive into the shallow end of a pool, period.
Have you tried to hire a lawyer lately? Do you know how much those guys (and gals) charge per hour? It’s an obvious conclusion that thousands have been spent so far,
Yes, the relays will be run without diving into the shallow end. The kids will start in the water, from that end. It really only affects the real young kids, as the older kids swim two laps, so they dive into the deep end, turn around at the shallow end and come back. The 8 and under kids only swim one length. It’s something that has been done for years at the home of one of the other swim teams, because their shallow end is a little more shallow than ours. It’s not a real big deal. We’re glad to do it if it eliminates one of your many liability concerns. The championship meet this year is being held at a pool where the homeowners are heartless and permit diving into their shallow end.
Why is the swim team being so accommodating to the Stratford BOARD (not the homeowners) while at the same time demonizing them??? The rhetoric didn’t heat up until the Stratford board felt their initial demands weren’t enough to get the team to fold. Then there was the renewed threat of a lawsuit from the Stratford board and the creepy videographer.
Have you actually witnessed a meet? I seriously doubt it. Same goes for those “demons” on the Stratford board. You probably have never witnessed what goes on during practice either, yet you seem to imply that the certified instructors for the swim team are teaching children to dive head first into the shallow end? Who’s demonizing who? Ever see a 30-pound 6 year old “dive” into the pool? They jump feet first with their hands out – it’s really cute. The older kids always start at the deep end – including relays. Guess the creepy videographer missed those shot opportunities.
So are you implying that, because there are “no diving” signs posted at the pool, that there is never any diving going on, other than swim team members during practice or meets? How naive is that! It’s apparent that you never use the pools. There is diving going on all the time, shallow end and deep end, adults and kids. The dreaded liability is out there ALL THE TIME! The sign says “no running”…I see people running! How are you going to remove 100% of the liability at a pool setting? Who is watching over the Stratford pools to prevent running and diving? Are you concerned about the liability? At any given moment someone can get injured (minor or serious) at one of the many pools in the Summit and Stratfords. That doesn’t mean that they have a case for a $50mm lawsuit! The rules for diving at the Summit pools are in the process of being modified. The swim team has modified it’s practice and meet procedures to eliminate diving into the shallow end, at the request of the Stratford board. The insurance carriers seem to be ok with these changes…why aren’t you? I mean, seriously, I could go to the pool today and jump in feet first and whack my head on the edge and become crippled for life. Does that mean I have grounds for a huge lawsuit, because there weren’t signs posted that said “no jumping into the pool within 7 feet of the edge”?
Hey Mr Facts.. check you FACTS according to the CDC diving injuriesor death during an organized and suppervised swim practice or event is extremely rare. The biggest danger is drownings and 50% of those involve alcohol in males 18- 25 years old..the seond biggest factor is kids not knowing how to swim…so get yrou facts straight..
you can call me a lot of things. but HOW DARE you call us irresponsible parents? – do you even have kids of your own? Don’t you dare use your selfish agenda and twist it to make me sound like I am a bad parent. Yes, lets have facts. Lets have facts in the open. Stop hiding behind your gates, and hiding behind your pathetic rules and regulations and come out and present them to the community – in the open, and in front of others who know the real facts. Not just the pretend ones you make up to suit your needs. If you are so sure of yourself, you shouldn’t be afraid of a moderated public forum, should you?
Any reply there “mr. I’m an intellectual and you are all idiots”. Feels good does it? Looking down on others passion, commitment and community spirit, with your holier-than-thou attitude, while you hide behind your (self-made) rule book?
Perhaps your argument would be listened to if you were more open about it?
What do you think? can your gargantuan brain, which is clearly more superior to the rest of us grasp the concept of honesty and openness?
Are you sure enough of your facts to put them under public, impartial, scrutiny?
Let me know. Would love to know.
no. shame on YOU I think.
according to the CDC In 2006, there were 3,579 fatal unintentional drownings in the United States, averaging ten deaths per day. An additional 514 people died, from drowning and other causes, in boating-related incidents. Diving accidents accounted for 12 deatsh. All of them occured in waterways and lakes.
The insurance company knows quite well that this is a swim team…that they conduct practices, that they dive into the pool.. and they still insure them for $ 5 million…wow those insurance companies must be really stupid.. they don’t look at statistics or potential liability…
This great news! Why then does everyone here have their panties all in a knot if the swim team has its eyes dotted and tees crossed? Wouldn’t it be easier to ignore the Stratford people?
Back at ya, Homey. Why are the panties of the Stratford board (and yours) in such a knot? Why did they just get in a knot now after the swim team has been around for 21 years? Why now? Oh, I forgot, it’s that darn liability issue…what a smokescreen!
Back at ya Mikey, first of all, I wear boxers (apparently unlike you) and secondly, there is no issue since you obviously have your eyes dotted and your tees crossed.
Bill, FYI, it’s not the same Mike.
nope. they are on a mission to stop it. as evidenced by their creepy filming mission. Hey, if they were entitled to film, why did they run and hide when the police were called?
Next time – just be open about it. We’ll even smile and wave at you Kevin. (oh, and seriously dude, by some new sunglasses, they are oh so 70′s – you looked like you should be in CHiPs)
Mr. Hoffman, if they were doing something wrong why did the police leave them alone?
The Police went and investigated the matter later that night,directly with the HOA president I believe.
If they were in the right, why did they drive off and hide when the police were called? If you have nothing to hide, don’t hide.
Alan – You are telling me insurance companies know children are being allowed to dive into the shallow end of the pool? I don’t believe that for one minute. Otherwise, why is SVC Dad misstating the facts on that issue by saying the kids only dive into the deep end? Additionally, I attended a board meeting in which you misstated the fact that the kids only dive in the deep end. Your misstatement was corrected at that meeting in open forum by the swim team president admitting that the kids do in fact dive into the shallow end of the pool during relay races. If this is a legitimate activity sanctioned by the insurance companies then why the efforts to cover it up?
Wow – cover up? You may be on to something here. Better take cover… I think I saw some black helicopters flying over the Summit last night.
Insurance companies know what happens at a pool that is why the team is covered by such high insurance rates. You are correct that diving in the shallow end isn’t always safe but it is also commonplace to run a relay with kids already in the water. No parent or coach would allow a child untrained in shallow diving to do so. If you actually knew what you were talking about or have been to a meet, you would know this. Back to the facts, the team has agreed to stop shallow diving, they are insured, meets and practices are conducted with trained professionals and parents present. You actually want us to believe you are more concerned about these children than their parents and coaches? Shame on you! Ignore the years of benefits this club has provided the young people in your community and focus on enforcing your petty conditions. Thank goodness I don’t live in your HOA.
The Seals have been around for over 20 years and have been an incredible positive addition to our community. For many years the Summit pool had a diving board and everyone dove in the pool. The pool is open year round and Summit residents dive in it all the time. The swim team is the only ones that take the time to make sure everyone on the team does a correct shallow swimmer’s dive. In 21 years there have been no claims from Seals families for someone being hurt while diving.
BILL R… aka:VS Homey, aka:Time for some facts
It seems that you are the only one that is opposed to the Seals and our kids .. you just keep using different names.. not even your real one… just like the Stratfford Board bullies hidding behind cameras and trying to intimidate families….
Don’t forget a.k.a. NotAFerryFan
That wasn’t no PI investigating your kids, that was Bill’s guy getting footage for his NotASealsFan* YouTube series!
*h/t WhomItMayConcern
Bill, when will you be handing out your new DVD…”How to take the joy out of kids”.. ???
well spotted. it’s interesting they through out these challenges, but never respond to anything back. Anyone else notice how one-sided and empty their argument is. no substance. Come out into the open. Face the community and the people you accuse of being irresponsible, if you have nothing to hide and are ‘in the right’ then be open honest and upright about it. stop hiding, stop the sniperfire. The community is sick off your self-righteous attitude. and your own homeowners are getting sick and tired of being kept in the dark. be careful, this could push you out of your oh-so-precious positions of power come the next vote.
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