A reader who claims her friend was the driver of the white Infiniti tells me -and by extension those of you who would like some answers for what happened on Sunday night- to keep quiet out of consideration for the tough time her friend is having:
Keep to yourself on this. If you have an ounce of respect for others you will wait for an accurate outcome to the investigation. The driver is my friend and i have heard her story and i have read the posts here. Thank you to those of you who are praying for her. It has not been easy on her. There’s always two sides to a story and she deserves her peace for time being. Be a good citizen and keep to yourself. If this were your daughter every single post you were to read here would anger you.
If this were my daughter? How about if the dead woman was my mother? Or wife? How would I feel then?
Shades of Chelsea Arcos here.
Remember her? Chelsea Arcos was a 19 year old Saugus High grad who drove drunk on Interstate 5 back in 2006. On her way home from a party, she slammed into two motorists on the side of I-5, killing them both and dragging one of them a mile or two down the freeway under her Toyota truck. When she finally stopped, she reportedly told the arresting officer that her father was LAPD and would get her out of the trouble she was in.
She got eight years in state prison for vehicular manslaughter. There were comments similar to the reader’s above on SCVTalk back in 2007.
If I had faith that the City and the Sheriff’s Station would do right by the victims, I might shut up. But I don’t. And so, no, I will not keep to myself. Nor should those who witnessed this and are justifiably upset about what happened.
The City of Santa Clarita has apparently decided to clam up, obviously worried about its liability and lawsuits. So take it directly to them: call or email the City Council and demand that the Sheriff’s Station release the names of the drivers and conduct this investigation in as open and transparent way as possible. Demand to know why there was very little law enforcement around prior to the crash. If there is no privacy for the deceased woman’s family, there ought to be no privacy for the drivers either.
The only thing that stopped this incident from turning into a total massacre -like the 2003 Santa Monica Farmer’s Market crash- was a goddamn traffic light pole. It very nearly came to that, with seven or eight injuries and one fatality.
Is it starting to sink in what happened on Sunday night yet?
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I believe that a full investigation is needed but what good does it do by harping and demanding that names be released? So that people can harass them? Its certain that the sheriff’s will release the names but really what’s the difference if it was yesterday or in a few days from now for people who have no connection what’s so ever in the investigation.
The problem (and opportunity) with delay is that the broader community forgets and law enforcement feels comfortable cutting deals for light punishment that would have outraged an engaged community.
Also, from a personal standpoint the drivers need to have some clarity about their debt to society in order that they can begin to rehabilitate themselves.
Why would law enforcement want to cut a deal for light punishment? THat doesnt make any sense.
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.
Chelsea Arcos got drunk in Lebec and took out two South Bay residents changing a tire on I-5, dragging one a mile before she finally stopped. She plead guilty and the probation report came back recommending eight years of which she will do three, so about 18 months for each fatality. Chelsea Arcos’s father was an LAPD officer. Next question.
Still have to disagree with you.
LAPD has nothing to do with CHP and Lebec is not even in the same county. So dont see how just because someone’s father is LAPD, a deal got cut?
Aren’t probation reports for when someone is eligible for probation after they’ve already been serving part of their time in prision? Wouldnt the reduction in time being served be handled through a judge??
So I’m not clear in your analogies of using this drunk girl in Lebec has anything to do with this 4th of July incident. The time being reduced seems after she’s already been in prision. Not in the beginning of an investigation when someone’s name is being released.
When someone pleads guilty, the probation department has to do a study of the defendant’s fitness for the agreed to sentence. In the case of Chelsea Arcos, there were allegations that the CHP ceded the study to another probation officer with a potential relationship with the defendant’s father. Also, their were allegations that the study took about triple the time normal, during which pendency Chelsea Arcos did not have to report to prison.
Plus, law enforcement has NOTHING to do with cutting deals. District attorneys and City aattorneys are the ones who cuts the deals. This way, they can put a check in the win column when they are done.
It’s sad all the way around-tragic for all parties….but, really…. nobody had any business sitting on sidewalk curbs seeing how fast cars were going through the intersections that night…I hate to say it….but that is just not being accountable for yourself or your family. Have any of you seen how people normally pull out of parking spaces at Target on any given Saturday? I feel like you have to wear body armor just to avoid these people who don’t bother to look! Ulitmately though, cars should have been stopped at least a half hour before the show started and never should have been allowed through that intersection…blah, blah, blah. We could go on and on…Maybe if the city hadn’t spent so much on their ridiculous “Awesometown” campaign there would have been more financial resources to plan better and have traffic enforcement…now….the city can skip it’s stupid ad campaigns next year because it’s going to write a big fat check to all concerned in this accident!!! By the way…while we’re on the “City of Santa Clarita-not so safest anymore” diatribe…might want to have the cops park themselves over at Bridgeport next 4th of July to assist in the rogue fireworks show going on over there before the mall works began….those fireworks were exploding so low I’m shocked nobody had an eye taken out!!! Oh well…there’s always next year!!!!
God bless this woman and her family, the bystanders who will have that memory etched in their heads and hearts forever, and the young woman whose car ran the red…but really…everyone needs to just own up to their parts in this and let it rest…
still waiting for the one SCV jerk to ask if she was legal?????? any takers???? Come on SCV…that’s the white elephant in the room since you all found out her name?
White elephant!? Seems someone always feels the need to “not waste a crisis” to make a non related point.
the awesome town campaign is not the city’s but rather Newhall Land.
We were at Bridgeport Park and were pretty shocked when the huge fireworks were going off on the baseball diamond. They were really low. We usually go to the Town Center but went along with a group of friends that go to the park every year to watch, (pretty lame, by the way).
Anyway, this post you received from a “friend” pisses me off. How is there any “two sides” to this story? It’s a ridiculous statement.
I’m surprised to hear that there was no police presence. I remember previous years there were police at every intersection and even some of the roads were closed too. I really want to know what happened.
In some ways I agree with her in others I don’t. What kind of respect are we showing the dead by speculating on what caused the crash? I got some what upset about the drunk driving claim that appears to be false. Then all we read was the girl in the white car ran the red light. Now witnesses are saying it was the Durango.
So maybe people should wait till all the evidence is looked at and charges are filed?
By the way, does it really matter who was driving either car right now? Should we not be focusing on how to help the poor family that lost their mother?
Now that would be a good story! How the community is coming to their aid. I would like to read that story. Sure would beat the one about an drunk driver in a white car (that seems to be completely bogus)
Amen!
I agree
one of the smartest things you’ve said.
SCVsuckz: I am surprised no one mentioned that white elephant yet either. I have been waiting.
Also, the City has no involvement in the “Awesometown” campaign. That’s Newhall Land and Farming for Valencia and no connection to the City.
Not sure if the City should pay financially, but I’m sure someone will try to sue. If the City has to pay, expect services to be cut as well as potentially cancelling the show.
“If the City has to pay, expect services to be cut as well as potentially cancelling the show.”
Fine. We can start by cutting the $200,000 checks we hand over to the economic development corporation or the $10s of thousands we give out to the auto dealers. How about that?
I’m fine with that but it wont happen. Auto dealers and business community have too much clout.
Expect parks and rec to be cut and other services for residents.
I also want to say that a judgement against the City will be a judgement against all of us taxpayers who will ultimately end up paying if the City loses.
And expect the non-resident fee to increase for “Seasons”.
She will live with this her entire life. I agree that it should be talked about, but do wait for judgement until the entire investigation is complete. I also kind of rushed to judgment and do regret doing so now. Interestingly, Laura Bush went through a somewhat similar situation when she was a teenage driver and she talks about the trauma she has lived with her entire life in her book. Indeed this woman must be going through incredible agony.
I feel for both families and pray for them. You are right to pursue information. At first I thought it was a DUI thing. If that were the case, the driver should be slammed. Something happened. We do not know what. The facts need to be publicly disclosed.
If this were Arizona, at which stage of this heart rending event would law enforcement ask to see citizenship papers?
After all, if they didn’t, the citizens could file a lawsuit against the cops. This law adds heartbreak to misery with no choice.
That said, we are no longer a ‘town’. We can no longer fit the entire city into a ‘Town Center’ and expect a happy ending. We have gotten too big as a city for just one fireworks event to take place in Valencia. It’s time to face the fact that we have outgrown all the small town junk the city foists on us. They wanted growth and now they have it. This includes all the additional expenses that go with it! I personally miss the race and fireworks show at Saugus Speedway.
If there is liability, it is due to stupidity. The ignorant belief that we are small town Americana.
It’s way past time we had our own police force which has Santa Clarita as the main focus. Maybe someone would have spoken up about limiting traffic on the main roads at least an hour before and after this event.
20/20 hindsight or common sense?
The victims were not breaking any law so the answer to your “Arizona question” is NEVER.
The drivers involved in this tragic accident would have to produce valid driver’s license and insurance information, so Arizona question would be answered.
Bringing in that whole issue at this point, insensitive at best.
That is really random.
I do agree with your point that Santa Clarita solicits growth, but hasn’t demonstrated an equally strong effort to account for it. It’s the “be careful what you wish for” result. It’s possible that the City was not expecting such a crowd that night. I actually brought two other friends with me to the show from out-of-town… Just another reason to reexamine the whole event and how it is held. If we want the economic benefits of a large city, we have to deal with the headaches of one, as well, one of which is accomodating large crowds at events such as this.
I will wait for the investigation to be complete. There are obviously a ton of witnesses to interview and I have confidence that the facts will unfold. I don’t find it useful in the least to have the drivers personal information disclosed for vigilante justice.
Agreed!
Cards on the table Berta. If the victim is in this country illegally do she and her family deserve justice under our laws?
We do not know the legal status of anyone involved in this tragedy but to answer your question directly, absolutely yes!
Everyone, including those who have broken any law, is entitled to justice and due process. We are a nation of laws. Including Immigration laws Tim.
Good answer! Thanks for the candor.
There is absolutely NO evidence that ANYONE is planning vigilante justice. It is about unequal treatment by law enforcement. If the drivers were illegal I bet we would know who they are right now!
And you are basing that on???? A reliable source! LOL
Boy another timmy prediction. Timmy, give it a rest! I think you have embarrassed yourself enough on this story.
I agree Tim, as we did with the trucker that crashed in the tunnel last year. This forum was just bursting with comments about that accident and the drivers ‘status’.
Jeff / Tim
Do you believe that one or both of the drivers are related to law enforcement?
Won’t know until we know who it is. But the Lellan mass casualty involved a child of law enforcement as a witness (an irregularities were cited) and Chelsea Arcos, the perpetrator of a double casualty, was also a child of law enforcement.
The city officials who put this show together are easily identified and sitting at home with the same fear of a pointed finger as this girl is. Although I don’t feel the need to demand she come forth, I also don’t feel the need to respect her privacy. Just as I blame the City for luring thousands to one area, then failing to provide adequate safety measures for those thousands, I blame this girl for seeing the huge crowd, many of them children, then failing to exercise the necessary safety measures in operating her vehicle. Outside of some spontaneous malfunctioning of her car, she owed a duty to her community to use extra care, more so than on an ordinary day, to protect the people she saw, yet she failed to do so. The City failed us. This girl failed us. Being a good citizen includes taking precautionary care in your everyday actions to ensure the safety of those you share this community with. Being a good citizen includes taking responsibility when you fail to do so, and allowing others in this community to learn from your mistakes so that we can all have some greater reassurance that a tragedy like this will never happen again. I hope to see this from both the driver and the City. Of course there will be finger pointing. That is an inescapable, and arguably, necessary, consequence… but, there will also be understanding: understanding of what went wrong so that we, as a community, can make changes to prevent its reoccurrence. I, like Matilde Juarez, am a mother. That could have been me or any other parent or child that night.
Co sign.
If this young lady was sober and just made a deadly, but honest mistake then I say she deserves privacy. Her family doesn’t deserve death threats and harassment from this community because someone in their family made an error.
I agree 100%
Opinion is the lowest form of human knowledge. It requires no accountability or understanding. The highest form of human knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another’s world. It requires profound purpose larger than the self kind of understanding.
-Bill Bullard, educator
Good quote.
Thanks! Perfect for this situation. I stole it from a friends facebook page though.
Me too. There too many ready to serve as judge, jury and executioner. Let the law take its course.
I’m really trying to understand why people have an expectation of privacy here. Walk me through your reasoning, because I’m pretty certain other incidents like this get fully reported (I’m thinking of the Santa Monica case in particular, plus several local crashes like the one I referenced from April)
Easy! You don’t have any clue as to guilt. Santa monica and the others we knew who was guilty.
It can’t get any easier than that. That is someones daughter who on this site was slandered and called DRUNK(from a reliable source). Then on this site she was also accused of running a red light.
Now it seems both could be very untrue. If I was her parents I would be lawyering up.
Hope that helps
I miss Gary Weinstein. At least he had the guts to man up and go to the media directly and admit that he put his testicles on a football teammate’s face and not hide behind this newly invented right of “privacy” in criminal investigations.
Dude if I was you I would stay far away from this subject. In one 2 minute span you labled her a DRUNK – Red Light- runner- murderer and in jail! I would be writing a letter to her begging for forgivness. You screwed up- so man up
You are right JA! Do you have the young lady’s name and address?
Have to agree with John Adams on this one.
I seem to be of a different opinion than is running here….. I will risk and get it out there. The creating of community is really through the people, not city management or a commercial entity. And, I, for one am very impressed with the people of this town and their reaction to the horrible tragedy. The people who quickly lifted that car and probably saved lives, the people who held bleeding children, the people who came to the drivers’ aide, the people who are continually giving flowers to the corner shrine, and now the efforts to raise money for this family in need.
Moving from Pasadena, I have always been concerned that Santa Clarita would be filled with prejudice and lack of inclusiveness. I have seen and heard nothing but open arms to all……. just linger at the corner of the Crossroads to see stranger hugging stranger and connection across all ethnic and economic boundaries..
To be honest, it has amazed me…… and made me feel like I really do live in a “small town” of caring people.
Ok, not drunk.
How about texting or some other needless distraction?
There will be speculation as to the cause. It’s human nature to find out why something happens knowing damn well the outcome will never change.
I agree Brian. Also, how about excessive speed. Based on the laws of physics and eyewitness accounts a tremendous rate of velocity would have been required to make the car go airborne, and the turning car could not have been going that fast!
Oh now she is a drunk-red light runner-incarcerated-speeder. I hope she gets a good lawyer
Defamation—also called calumny, vilification, slander (for transitory statements), and libel (for written, broadcast, or otherwise published words)—is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government, or nation a negative image. It is usually, but not always,[1] a requirement that this claim be false and that the publication is communicated to someone other than the person defamed (the claimant).
The accident occurred as the firework show was in progress? Now I’m no detective, but my money is on an eastbound driver looking out the drivers side window taking in a firework show. Wild ass guess.
Everyone:
I just did a search and this page may explain why the Sheriff’s have not released names:
http://scvsheriff.com/news_media_contacts.asp
Looks like it is LA County Sheriff policy not to release names of suspects before an arrest. Its under the non-releasable info header. Since there is no arrest, there is no name to be released. Looks like this is standard across all LA County Sheriffs, not just the SCV.
I also notice jeff has deleted Tims original post on Sunday night???? You know the one that had the drunk red light runner arrested and sitting in jail?
It is Gone!
Which reminds me a the very famous words of a local blogger:
And the only only thing worse than a controversial and cowardly blogger is a controversial and cowardly blogger who doesn’t stand behind his posts and tries to scrub them from his blog.
Fortunately nothing is deleted permanently on the internet and your cowardice is available for all to see.
You can’t make this up!
I don’t know what happened, but you’re jumping to conclusions in fingering who is responsible for removing the post. Why not wait until the facts come in?
John, why do I see Tim’s original post online still?
THANK YOU!!!!! Someone finally figured it out. All the incidents where everyone is referencing (Santa Monica, the I-5 incidnet), someone was arrested. NO ONE WAS ARRESTED IN THIS CASE.
consider this. the durango was traveling west making a left, the white car infiniti was eastbound going straight. ( I believe that is the way it is being reported. If not, then nevermind all of the rest). Why did the dodge hit the rear end driver side of the infiniti with its front driver bumper? think about that, the infiniti was very close to being clear of that dodge making its turn. the infiniti didnt tbone the dodge. It seems that the dodge hit the infiniti. One more second and the infiniti would have been past the dodge. None of this would have happened. Even if the dodge had a green and the infninit ran the red, the dodge still hit the rear end of the infiniti. why is that?
I am using the several pictures i have seen and the damage to the cars, especially the durango to ask these questions?
Now the question of who had a green and who had a red is unanswered. Until that is determined, fault cannot really be rendered.
Bill Reynolds is strangely silent on this one. Odd. Seems like a perfect time for him to swoop in and assert superiority over something or other.
In any case, sad events. Not entirely surprising, but sad as hell.
“Let this thing be investigated” is the first person to point out that the durango hit the rear of the infiniti. So the durango had to have seen infiniti and rushed his light to make the left – clipping the back. Otherwise, how does a left turner hit the back of a car coming through the intersection. Both kids not paying attention, both not making smart choices. This time unfortunately it was tragic. I was across the street in the parking lot. i will never forget the feeling as I watched the white car head towards people-which from my view – looked even more tragic. Unfortunately lessons learned for everyone here – events like this need more police protection and better traffic management. People need to realize that sitting on the curb of a busy street comes with a very real risk. And drivers need to pay attention ALWAYS. Sometimes we learn the hard way.
Chelsea Arcos, really Jeff?
Chelsea Arcos killed two people (vehicular manslaughter) while intoxicated in addition to leaving the leaving the scene. She also had an expired license and she a blood alcohol content over .05 while under 21 (she was over .08).
Comparing the specifics of this case, whether you are looking at those involved in the accident and/or the comments or requests made by those asking for due process and respect during a difficult time is irresponsible and wrong.
I am the ONLY person who was front and center in both the Arcos incident (I talked to her and her friend when they finally pulled over) and 4th of July accident (I helped move the car and my mother and father helped with the injured family) and I can assure you they are not remotely comparable. I was coming home from a concert in Fresno when Chelsea hit the family on the I-5. She was pulled over near the Valencia exit going to COC with her friend and she showed zero sign of remorse. She even told us that it was her friend who was driving and that it was no big deal. Fast forward to the 4th of July and you have a girl who was nothing but remorseful, scared, and cooperative.
Looking for answers and wanting to get to the truth of the matter is acceptable, but there is a way of going about it to make sure the right people are held accountable. Pursue that and fight for it, but don’t use as the basis of your argument for that a completely irrational and emotionally based comparison that doesn’t hold water.
Wow!!!! That Chelsea Arcos was one cool customer! If any of my three daughters were like that I would be sleeping with one eye open UNTIL they were incarcerated!
thank you for noticing that, (the little person icon blocks the first word of your name) happened?
I sure hope the investigators notice it too. Clearly there is contributory negligence. even if the infiniti ran a red, you would think the dodge would have seen the car and been able to miss it during its left turn. just cause you have a green light doesnt mean you have the right of way to hit a car.
I have been reading about this since Sunday night on svc talk and I have to say I am disgusted! This is awful for all involved. All I have read for four days is people arguing sides and trying to place blame on someone or something. Did anyone ever stop to think if either sides of these families involved were reading all these post? Yes, everyone played a part in making decisions that may or may not have prevented tragedy from happening. Do you really think that poor woman’s husband really wants to read that his dead wife put herself and her children at risk? And wheather you think she did or did not is it going to bring her back to him and her children? Or what about the 22 years old girls family and friends. If it were your child driving either car would you want to read all these comments about your child and people demanding to know their names? Is knowing their names going to bring her back? Is blaming our sheriff station whom by the way risk their lives for us everyday going to suddenly rewind time? Even blaming the city officials or the city itself or for that matter “the firework event” going to change anything that has already happened. None of us know enough information YET to be forming any opinions. The only people I feel have valid points the last four days “let this be investigated” possibly showing we may or may not know YET which car obey the traffic laws. And “John Adams” for saying what can we do for the family. Which is by far the only thing smart I have read on here. To “SM” regarding your statement from July 6th post why are you going on and on about if nothing changes. Why assume the worst with our city and its people. Did you ever think that most of the people in SCV put themselves in Sunday Nights situation and no one wants to see their love ones hurt emotionaly or phyically. If you have such little doubt of this city or its people than MOVE and that goes for anyone else here including “SCV SUCKS”. It has YET to be determined. Believe me I am sure everyone including me will be behind you if things stayed the same for the next event scv puts on. “THOMAS” you posted the dumbest thing I ever read!!! It’s not the law to pull over……really. Next time your on the road and you see lights and no siren or vise versa why dont you think about what if it were you or someone you loved that a police car, fire truck, or ambulance was racing to get to maybe than you think differently about pulling over to let them through FYI. Maybe you should all get together and start getting the names of all those people that didnt move out of the way for medical attention and start blaming them too! But again what is all of this fighting back and forth going to do for the families that might be reading all of this. Instead of putting your time and effort into trying to get the names of people to blame why dont you try and get the names of all the people that helped and were brave not cowardly hidding behind their user name where it is safe and giving ratings to a blog that means nothing to these families!!!! I am disgusted, disgusted at myself for even stooping to your level. Personal responsibility??? For me this has a new meaning wheather it be not on my phone when I drive, or not just caring about the saftey of myself or my family but also warning a stranger about something they may not see as dangerous not because they are NOT SMART but because it just didnt cross their mind and to not believe everything until I have the facts. And no one here has all the facts YET!!! My thoughts and prayers to all directly involved.
Paragraphs?
He/she obviously doesn’t know how to use paragraphs.
Disgusted, next time get my quote right which is here for you
“That is also when they have there siren and lights on. We know the fire department did in this case, but does anyone else notice most of the time, the fire department responds to calls with just there lights on. By law, you are not required to pull over to the side. Just FYI.
Reply
Thomas says:
July 7, 2010 at 6:06 am
Meant to say, you are not required to pull over if they don’t have both the siren and forward facing red light on.”
I was simply saying that law enforcement, fire department, and ambulance drivers have rules to follow when driving “code 3″. If you can read, look at the vehicle code, and it will show you the rules of when someone has to pull over. I was simply stating that the fire department MANY times does not use their sirens.
How would you feel if you collided with one of these monsters because you didn’t hear it. Bet you would be suing the FD like crazy. But remember your criticism of me and then keep your lawsuit to yourself.
The bottom line in this tragic event is that the city or Sheriffs are not at fault. What if there was no event going on and this accident just happened at the same intersection. WOuld everyone be this upset? NO!!!!!
Yeah, great angle. Let’s blame the OTHER car.
was that comment directed at me? regarding lets blame the other car? If so, please explain how I blamed the other car.
Jeff, the expectation of privacy derives from the legal concept of “Innocent until proven guilty” and since no charges have been filed yet, of course the LASD will not name the suspects. It might create a situation of vigilante justice, which given the high emotion, would be highly likely. What is served by releasing the names of the drivers before the investigation is complete?
Hey tomass, if you see emergency lights in your rearview mirror, or infront of your face move your butt to the side and make way, someones life could depend on it, who gives a crap about sec.3 ,10 ,4 ,9 or what ever highway code you been spending way too much time researching , try to focus on moving out of the way next time , whether there’s lights, sirens ,or both for that matter !! Also ,I don’t think the family’s involved care about “paragraphs” either !!
SCV….I mean dumass…..you are missing the point also. The point of the siren is because many people don’t see the lights. What if one of these fire trucks is driving during the day with just the red lights on? Are you going to see it? Not necessarily. How many times do you hear a siren, but you don’t see the truck?
The point I was trying to make is that all these people are required BY LAW to drive with their lights AND siren on.
Also, you are right, the family doesn’t care about paragraphs. The poster above me in one work asked for the OP to use paragraphs. Did either one of us mention the family regarding paragraphs dumass?