My friend Kevin Korenthal was riding his bike Sunday in Sand Canyon when he was almost hit by a speeding motorist. The hothead -apparently outraged that someone on a bicycle was using the road- turned around and tried to take revenge on KK:
I’ve ridden perhaps 700+ miles with KK over the years and nothing like this has ever happened to me while riding with him. I can vouch for his safety-first approach to cycling, his proper use of hand signals, his knowledge of the rules of the road and his deference to other road users. I can’t believe he kept his cool as the hothead cussed him out.
As cyclists we have a right to use the road in the way Kevin was using it, and we’re always conscious that there are assholes like this guy out there who might deliberately use their cars as weapons against us.
And I will use my blog to shame them.
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I’m not excusing the jerk in the car, but your buddy was all over the road just prior to being passed.
Ok educate me as to what the rider and driver should do. Petz would not have crossed a double yellow line but slowed behind the bike until Kevin moved to the right and appeared to be steady or had a legal passing lane. Surprised that the driver passed at such a high speed . Keeping a cool head in this circumstance is the best policy.
I second what Petz said. To get around the cyclist, the car would have had to cross the double yellow lines. I’d also like to know what proper etiquette is when a vehicle encounters a cyclist on a two lane road and the only way around the cyclist is to cross the double yellow lines?
Clearly the driver in question was out of control, but Mr. K was clearly not following the rules of the road either:
http://dmv.ca.gov/about/bicycle.htm
The keys to safe bicycling include being predictable, visible and communicating your intentions to motorists.
http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/shr_slow_veh.htm#bike
(Cyclists) “Shall ride as near to the right curb or edge of the roadway as practical…
Are legally allowed to ride in the center of the lane when moving at the same speed as other traffic.”
First off, the video shows Mr. K weaving, this is not what I would call “being predictable”.
Second, Mr. K was in the middle of the road, and his speedometer indicated he was only going 6 M.P.H. He had no legal right to be in the center of the lane as the video clearly shows he was. Also, since he was only traveling 6 M.P.H., he could have safely stayed way off to the side of the road as, at that speed, there was little if any danger if he were to go into the marbles.
Mr. K may very well have “knowledge of the rules of the road” but his behavior on this day was not in keeping with those rules.
While Kevin may have been a little further left than he should, I dont see anything wrong with what he did. You can tell that he was moving further to the right before the vehicle passed him. The vehicle appeared to be going way too fast and Kevin didnt have enough time to move all the way over before the vehicle passed. Any rational driver would have slowed down.
Also, Kevin has the right to take the full lane. Under California Vehicle Code 21202 (a)(3) it says if a substandard lane exists that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane, a bicyclist may take the full lane. Below is entire section.
21202. (a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
(1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
(2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
(3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge, subject to the provisions of Section 21656. For purposes of this section, a “substandard width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.
“Also, Kevin has the right to take the full lane”
You aren’t helping KK’s case.
This attitude is what enrages many motorists. Clearly at 6 mph the bike is a hazard for a driver to come across if the cyclist is taking the whole lane.
Any other vehicle that takes a full lane would be ticketed for not pulling over sooner if driving at such a slow speed. If you want to act like a regular vehicle and take a full lane, then the other laws applicable to regular vehicles still apply. Cherry-picking the rules is just the sort of thing that sets off drivers like in the video.
Enraged or not, he has the right as a vehicle to take the whole lane.
Spineflower2,
I’m not cherry-picking the rules. Its right there in the California Vehicle Code. Bicyclists have the right to take the full lane. Should they always? No. But in this case with a narrow road and debris from a recent storm, I see no fault in doing so. Kevin was also moving to the right when the car passed.
Its attitudes like yours that assume vehicles own the road and are king. They’re not. People learn the hard way when they’re being idiots and make dangerous manuevers and seriously injure or even kill bicyclists and then theyre sentenced to prision.
No, I do not assume cars are king. Sir Isaac Newton developed those laws of motion that mean your attitude may one day prove to be fatal.
Impeding the flow of traffic is not legal. Darting to the left to take a lane with a car approaching is failing to yield, also not legal. Yes, you are cherry-picking.
Obviously you have not read the California Vehicle Code. It is legal. Read my first post and you’ll see the section.
He was moving to the right when the car was approaching. Watch the video again for a refresher.
Personally, I’m not comfortable taking a full lane so my attitude won’t prove to be fatal.
Your attitude, unfortunately, will lead to someone dying and will land yourself in prision.
Your attitude is going to get someone killed and you thrown in pr
Drama, oh the drama!
You are predicting I will kill someone! How patently absurd!
Back here on Planet Earth, there is no such drama.
Just the plain facts about F=MA.
I would probably also slow, rather than cross the doublew approcahing a blind corner. Admittedly, I would have probably used my horn. But you don’t put a life in danger just to make a point, like this driver did. If you do, you end up like that Beverly Hills nutcase that rightly did jail time for it.
The law says that cyclists are to stay as far right as is safe. Not disputing the fact that I was farther left than I would have liked to be but this was necessitated by the amount of debris that the recent storms scattered on the roadway.
I am always listening for cars coming behind me. I heard the motorist coming just as he was about to be on top of me. This indicates that he was traveling at an unsafe speed considering the conditions.
Having said that, I don’t blame him for being frustrated as there are many cyclists that ride 2 abreast and are inconsiderate. I however did not earn being splashed when I crossed that stream. Nobody deserves to have their life placed in peril because some motorist cannot control their temper.
I will take this as a life lesson. You never know when I camera is on you!
Can you point out the debris you are referring to? I don’t see any.
Are you literally just trying to be an A-hole because you dislike Bicyclists or Kevin specifically? Or maybe you’ve never ridden a road bike. Let me clue you in to a few things.
A) Road bike tires are thin and extremely susceptible to “debris,” I know when he says debris you are asking “Where?!? I don’t see any branches or downed power lines?” gravel and small pebbles are enough to send you tumbling or flatten your tire.
B) When going uphill at 6 miles per hour… in the wind, it is not uncommon for a cyclists to weave a bit to keep forward momentum, that is what it is obvious he is doing.
C) Your defense of this idiot motorist and his verbal attack on the bike rider is incomprehensible. The guy was out of line period! What’s worse is that he would think to risk this biker’s safety with some sort of retribution.
“Your defense of this idiot motorist and his verbal attack on the bike rider is incomprehensible.”
Your affection for Kevin and cyclists in general is obviously clouding your perception; I never defended the motorist nor his verbal attack. In fact, quite the opposite is true. The very first post in this thread is from me:
“I’m not excusing the jerk in the car, but your buddy was all over the road just prior to being passed.”
The first line of my second post in this thread:
“Clearly the driver in question was out of control, but Mr. K was clearly not following the rules of the road either”
Did I miss something? If there is a post I made defending the driver and his verbal attack, please oh please point it out to me.
Until then, I’m curious, are you literally just trying to be an A-hole because you dislike anyone that questions the actions of bicyclists?
Your “I’m not defending the driver but…” blaming the victim is not unlike someone saying that a victim of abuse is “asking for it” by the way they dress, act, etc. You are clearly giving his behavior a pass by saying that Kevin “asked for it,” with the way he is riding.
I have no affection for Kevin, I’ve never met him. My affection for cycling is that is my right to ride my bike on the roads and the roads are to legally be shared. Your obvious disdain for cyclists in general is obviously clouding your perception.
I never blamed the victim, period. I simply point out the fact that Mr. K. was all over the road. If you choose to believe that means I am defending the driver, well, that is your right. You are also free to believe in the Easter Bunny, if you so desire.
Just out of curiosity, why do you have a camera going? Other than the occasional potential youtube videos.
I would recommend getting mirrors for your helmet if you don’t have them already.
What does it sound like when they are coming at a safe speed? And what were the conditions? If there was no “debris”on the road, would his speed have been OK? Just asking. Maybe you can produce another partial video showing what it sounds like.
When I encounter cyclists on 2 lane roads, I generally cross the double yellow AS LONG AS I can see that there is no traffic coming at me. Otherwise, I wait until there is an opportunity to pass.
When I note a motorist patiently waiting to pass me when I am on my bike, I generally try to find room farther to the right to let him pass. Unfortunately this can often lead to a flat tire as the shoulder of most smaller roads are covered in sharp debris.
It’s there, I assure you. Regardless, the law states that cyclists may ride in lane and are only required to stay as far right as is practicable. Perhaps if people actually took the time to understand the vehicle code as it relates to cyclists, they may not have such wild expectations of how they should behave.
So it’s kind of your word against the video?
See above regarding debris Capn… you’re not looking for freaking boulders or downed trees, you’re talking about sharp gravel etc. But you know what, instead keep poking at him with a sharp stick, that’s much more productive than listening.
So why go ride in a debris field that is obviously putting your tires, safety and the safety of others in danger? Let me guess; “it’s your right”.
No I ride on a street Capn, where it is legal to do so. After a storm it is not always possible to hug the shoulder because of the added debris.
Now you’re changing arguments, your disdain for cyclists in general is obviously clouding your perception
Hey Jeff, can I use your blog to shame a driver? I want to out what appeared to be a handicapped parking violator. On 3/18/11 I was at the Newhall Metrolink train station. From the train platform I watched a silver Infinity pull into a handicapped parking space. A woman that appeared to be maybe in her 30’s got out of the car. She didn’t appear to have any visible disabilities, but since not all disabilities are visible, I gave her the benefit of the doubt. This woman was still in the parking lot when she heard the train whistle. I watched her make a mad dash and run from the parking lot to the train platform. I’m guessing she’s not the registered user of the handicap placard she was using. The car was still there in the evening so I wrote down the placard number, license plate number and it just so happened that there was a personalized license plate frame on the car that said SCVHOMESALES dot COM.
I swear on my mother’s life, I saw that same vehicle taking up two parking spots on a super busy day near Trader Joe’s. Diagonally, right in front of the store. Another person walked by and noticed the same parking job about the same time a pregnant woman came walking from her car way out in the lot, and threw his cherry Slurpee at the offending car. While I don’t condone this kind of retribution, it was a thing of beauty to watch. Windshield just covered. After reading the above account, it now seems it was not only justified but a long time coming. You mess with the handicapped or pregnant women, you get the Slurpee.
Hahaha. Got to love it when karma and a slurpee meet.
I love it. I wish I had the nerve to do that.
Somewhere there is a mountain of Slurpee ready to cascade down on Bill Reynold’s head.
Careful making inferences about the validity of a person’s handicap. On a really good many handicap people (including myself) do not appear handicapped.
I find that the bigger problem as i see it is the people that use handicap spots as loading or waiting zones. People with no placard at all feel they can use the space as long as they remain with the vehicle! Outrageous!
As I said, I gave the woman the benefit of the doubt until I saw her sprint through the parking lot so as not to miss the train.
If its who I think it is… its very possible that this is a co-worker of mine. Although, she is a bit older than in her 30s… she’s in her early 50s. According to her, she’s got an issue with her back, and will be undergoing surgery for it soon.
(I’m not excusing her behavior…. just relaying the story, as I’ve heard it.)
I hear a bad back forces you to take up two parking spots in a crowded lot. Medical fact.
It’s possible she was in her 50’s. I was at a distance. I guessed 30’s just based on her build, the way she carried herself, the way she was dressed and the way she ran for the train. She didn’t look like most of the 50-soemthing frumpy women I see on the train. The woman I saw was a brunette with I believe shoulder length hair, or hair that fell somewhere around her shoulders. If this description fits your co-worker, then maybe it was her. I dunno, I suppose I shouldn’t judge, but if she can run like that, she probably doesn’t need a handicap placard. I didn’t write down the model of the Infinity, but here’s part of the license plate number 4YOB. I’m not sure if Jeff will allow me to post the entire plate number, but that should be enough to know if this is your co-worker.
There’s another chick in a dark BMW that also uses the handicap spot at the Newhall Metrolink station. I’ve seen her up close and she looks maybe in her 30’s or early 40’s. She’s slender, looks fit, I haven’t seen her limp, there’s no visual evidence of a disability, but since I haven’t seen her sprinting through the parking lot to catch the train, I have to give her the benefit of the doubt.
Unless you are in a wheelchair, you should not be using the handicap spots. Your handicap must be nothing if you can ride your bike the way you are.
It’s good to be vigilant KLB.
It never fails to surprise me how angry people get over the smallest of inconveniences. But this phenomenon is common, even between motorists. Try slowing down to make a right turn into a parking lot or side street off a main thoroughfare, and you risk the same sort of treatment. Of course it is riskier riding a bike because you are more vulnerable to injury or death without 2000 pounds of car around you.
My sympathy for your experience KK. Good idea having the camera, though.
The camera I am using in the video is a GoPro Hero 960 which (although not displayed in this video which was taken as I was testing the camera) is 720p 16:9 Aspect Ration (HD). I purchased a propriety mount that is harnessed to my chest. In fact you can actually hear my heart beat in other videos.
The best part is that it is water proof to 60 feet.
Anyone interested in purchasing HD video cameras (especially for outdoor/sporting use) might want to check out the GoPro website. They have full 1080p cameras too. I plan to where it when I ride as much as possible.
http://gopro.com/
I’ve used the GoPro much in the motorsports world. They’re cool little cameras that are used often in legitimate, full-on television productions. Surfers, skiiers, cyclists, skateboarders, they all use them.
I have one of the original versions, and one of the HD versions. We used to have to buy boatloads of AA batteries to use in them, and they’d run out of battery after half a day (if that long). Amazing how far they’ve come in such a short time.
So, why do you video your rides? Just curious.
It boils down to being a decent human being. So the guy in the car hard to cross the double yellow line big flipping deal. He did not have to wait for KK and then be so rude. Get over it, there are far bigger things in life then to use profanity at KK simply because you had to move your car. A decent human being even one having a bad day would just let it go and continue on with your day. The guy in the car sounds like one of those playground bullies.
yes, exactly.
Thank you everyone for your comments. I want to be a courteous cyclist AND motorist and am not innocent when it comes to getting pissed off while driving. But the lesson here is that people need to learn to control their anger in this age of video!
First of all, GREAT to have video, rather than just self-serving personal accounts. Bravo! A rare and honest treat.
I think there is fault all around. Given you are approaching a blind corner, as a cyclist you should be diligent to be closer to the right side, and not just when you are aware of a car approaching you from behind. As a driver, I would not like to be forced to choose between (A) crossing a double yellow on a (nearly) blind corner, or (B) risking colliding with a cyclist.
Selfish, maybe, but if push came to shove, I’d save my neck over another person’s. This means the cyclist is at greater risk, and should operate accordingly. Forcing the choice on a driver is the initial unsafe imposition, and has to be avoided or this kind of conflict will arise.
However, there is absolutely no excuse for the tantrum this jerk driver threw afterwords, and the threat he made is clear and illegal. Providing a copy of the license and video to the CHP is not out of line. However, expect the CHP to do nothign unless you are willing to press charges. It is not their policy to issue warnings, even with evidence as you have. They either arrest with your promise to support them, or they drop it without contacting him.
Posting it on youtube with his license plate might get word around abot this jerk. All public information, no invasion of privacy.
Or you can be the bigger man, let this guy find his small penis compensation elsewhere, and move on.
Ummm, there is an option C – SLOW THE EFF DOWN UNTIL IT IS SAFE TO PASS… you are not being forced to choose between the other 2 options. Motor vehicles do not have legal dominance over the roads and should you choose option B because you are in such a hurry you will be charged for hitting the cyclist.
A driver has no obligation to expect another vehicle blocking the full lane gonig 6 mph. In such a case, the blame would not automatically fall on the car driver. Failing to maintain adequate speed while using the full lane would be the major contributing factor in such an accident.
Not only that, the reality is there would be no bicycle witness alive to even give his side of the story.
But you stick with that theory. You may carry it to your grave.
“A driver has no obligation to expect another vehicle blocking the full lane gonig 6 mph. ”
I don’t know how you drive but when I drive, I drive carefully and with my eyes open so that I can be ready for the unexpected.
Too bad you don’t advocate riding a bicycle with the same safety-mindedness.
What do you know about cycling anyway? For a guy who poses as an opponent of growth, you sure do defend the status quo when it comes to gas guzzling cars that pollute our air.
Tell you what- why don’t you go for a bike ride with me before you judge us?
I do ride, and I drive a Prius (with a 4-bike rack), so no gas guzzlers for me!
I just think it’s silly to depend on some scribbling on a piece of paper in Sacramento thinking that will veto the laws of physics.
Soooo are you saying you would lie, or go hit and run on the whole thing… just clarifying your position.
What was the threat he made? Maybe I didn’t hear it.
hmmm, I read the comments before I watched the video. Did any of you who claim Kevin was “all over the road” happen to notice the cliff at the right side of your screen? He completely was within his rights to be in the middle of the lane and when he heard cars coming from behind he moved to the right. Sure maybe someone ha to slow down and shave 3 even 4 seconds in the time their commute to where ever they were going would have been. But for real? This guy in the silver SUV has a serious problem.
There is a shoulder that is nearly as wide as the road Mr. K. would have to cross before getting to the cliff. He really was in no danger of going off the cliff as there is all that debris there which would have disabled his bike if he went through it. It make me wonder why such an experienced biker would choose to travel on a road that is full of debris with a bike that is so susceptible to damage from something as common to a roadway as sharp gravel.
Oh yeah, and the SUV driver is a dick.
Well we agree on the nature of the driver, but this post also clearly answers the earlier question of whether you were just trying to be an A-Hole.
The microcosmic nitpicking by the obvious non-bicyclists who responded to this thread notwithstanding, is the message about the ranting lunatic who was ready to use his vehicle as a means of revenge against Mr. Korenthal lost on most of you? For crying out loud, all the motorist had to do was pass the bicycle and he threw a fit; lying in wait and then hurling unnecessary epithets for no good reason other than he has obvious anger management issues.
What this guy said.
You DID read the whole thread, which includes several examples of posters criticizing the driver, right?
Amen Guru.
What is the license plate number on the vehicle in question – wasn’t that Bob Kellar?
No, but it is sounding more and more like Jeff2.
Is the ability to read minds a result of the helmet or the spandex?
I think you’re an asshole. But that’s just my opinion. Oh, and it’s the spandex.
I agree with Scott, but my mind reading power is in the helmet, the spandex are just for comfort
How do you fit it over the tin foil?
Look, since Mr SUV had his chance to mouth off and drive off like the pussy that he is, I think it’s only fair that we have a bike tweetup at his ranch this weekend and see if he’s be willing to talk to us about road safety and defensive driving. Might by chance we get a hold of his license plate? And hey, Cappie Gene, put yours here too and we’ll all pow wow!
Of course, this is assuming Mr SUV is NOT riding in the Santa Clarita Century on Saturday.
That prick would’ve had a wrench up his ass if it had been me….but seems it’s already crowded with sticks.
Metal beats wood, you know this Gang lol
Too true! But I mean, come on…….not only are you a self absorbed and inconsiderate driver, but you double back and lay in wait? That’s just a double stack of douchery. Unreal.
Share the road. Share the damn road.
Some people are in such a damn hurry for no real reason. I understand the concept of we never know what someone else is going through at that time but the reality is everyone needs to slow down and smell the flowers. Biking is effin’ fun as opposed to my big metal box….unless I am being chased by zombies.
Wow, this guy was a total douche bag who needs to get back on the 405 with his Yuppie mid-size crossover driving azz. I seriously try to be courteous when riding my bike daily and put myself in the other person’s shoes. On this occasion however, my years of anger management would’ve disappeared and I would’ve been so tempted to chuck my bike at him since he wanted to hit it anyways.
Why all the hate? I just pointed out the facts. If you guys can’t handle the facts that’s your problem. Loosen up your helmet straps it’s affecting your thinking.
No hate at all Genie. You seem to be a real expert on this, so lets all meet up and you can show us how we should be doing it. Where do you live?
Could you be more specific?
YES. More specifically: You are clearly an expert in this area in terms of code. We can come over and watch you ride down your street. Then we’ll head up to Bear Divide. We can follow behind you in the car, you can tell us how close we can legally pass you at 45 miles per hour. Do you understand this?
So you want to have me recreate the incident that was on the video? Sorry, can’t happen because a. I wouldn’t ride a bike that is so delicate that I have to swerve into the middle of the highway to avoid a sharp pebbles and, b. I’m not so arrogant that I expect anyone else using the road to have to wait for me because I decided to use equipment that was not appropriate for the conditions.
Why did you ask where I live? That’s what I actually want you to be specific about.
See, when a person is so obviously emotionally distraught and aggravated as you asks where I live, it sounds like you are calling me out. You weren’t calling me out were you?
See, A. and B. are incredibly helpful already in showing us how we should be behaving on the road! You could really be extremely helpful to the rest of the community by contributing this knowledge to our activity. Since you’re house wheels on it, you wouldnt even need to leave your own living room.
“Since you’re house wheels on it…”
Huh? Let me guess; GED?
You were doing better when you were trying to call me out.
Oh, make no mistake, you’re def being called out Capo. Show us how you do it, baby.
Easy, lads. Next you’ll be planning a “meetup” at The Way Station.
don’t sleep on the chili browns jean. just sayin, kid.
“Why all the hate? I just pointed out the facts. If you guys can’t handle the facts that’s your problem. Loosen up your helmet straps it’s affecting your thinking…. And get off my LAWN!!!!”
-Capn Gene.
Finally your posts make sense. I thought you were being serious, when actually you’re just a clown making stuff up.
See people, it pays to read all the posts before making up your mind.
A couple of comments:
I drive Sand Canyon all the time and have to deal with the many bike riders who enjoy riding on the road. I ride that road occasionally also and generally feel safer on the portion above Placerita where Kevin was riding. The speed limit on Sand is 45 mph so it is not unreasonable that the driver of the SUV in the video was going fast (but it didn’t look like he was going even close to 45). There is a slight uphill before that stream crossing and as shown on Kevin’s speedometer, he was dogging it (sorry buddy).
I don’t personally think the car was that close to Kevin while he passed. While every cyclist would love to have the whole lane while they are riding, it is unrealistic to expect that so we all have to share the road and do it safely. Kevin appears to have moved to the right as the car was coming which was the right thing to do.
The driver was a jerk for messing or wanting to mess with Kevin after the pass. No excuse for that. But would we have seen this video if the driver had just kept going?
Probably not!
Be considerate – share the road – be safe!
Honestly no, we probably wouldn’t have. The pass could have been more courteous to be sure but ultimately his later actions are what really trigger a head shake at his arrogance and rage.
Inpatience seems to be rampant in the SCV. I used to bike commute over the hill to Sun Valley, and I NEVER had problems once in the SF valley, but the trip over the hill on the old road was nearly always scary as hell, due to no shoulder and a lack of courtesy by many motorists. I haven’t watched the video, but I have experienced the same thing myself. The Ironic rational I have gotten from motorists that “I would have had to cross the double line to pass you safely!” always amazes me….it is just paint on the road, the would will not end if your tires touch it, and in talking with a law enforcement officer of my acquaintence about this same scenario, he said that if he witnessed a motorist safely crossing the yellow line (no oncoming traffic) to make room for a cyclist, he not only would NOT stop and cite the motorist, he would consider it the prudent thing to do. Bottom line….there is nothing so important in a motorists life that justifies threating the life of a non-motorist, be it cyclist or pedestrian.
How come no one is saying anything about the red car? The cyclist had to make a quick movement to get out of his way also. To me, the cyclist was impeding traffic and should have moved over sooner. What did the road look like before the vehicle passed? Is it a curve and maybe the driver didn’t see him? Yes, he is a jerk for his comments later, but this video does not show everything.
Saugushomeowner: You are not showing a great deal of perception in your comments. It can be clearly seen that the driver of the red vehicle actually moved over to allow for safe passing of the cyclist (me). You really need to go back and watch the video again.
As for your comment that the video does not show everything, I assure that it does. No other cars passed me in the quarter mile that I cut from the video, but if you really need to see it, I can upload the whole unedited video. But before I do that, I want you to comment on my first point.
Here’s your comment. The red car was just as close. He/she was speeding just as much. The other car was a little closer, yes. Reread my post also. The guy was a jerk for waiting for you. My opinion is that you could have been farther over to the right.
Clearly, all of this was Bill Ayers fault.
NFIC comments are enlightening. First of all, would you believe I was riding into a massive headwind? Okay how about a slight breeze?
Okay, I am not a fast rider, especially uphill.
Indeed, I have felt side view mirrors brush my arm as I have ridden through this canyon and gave the same indication to the driver that I gave in this instance. But I have never had a motorist lie in wait for me up ahead and confront what was by all reasonable accounts a a bad passing.
Wearing a video camera as I ride is also very enlightening. I am noticing other idiosyncrasies about my riding style that can be improved upon. I am going to continue to tape some of my rides and adjust my riding style accordingly.
Clearly if you’re not at Lance Armstrong level in terms of skill you are a menace and should not be allowed on the streets Mr. Korenthal.
I new this would be the perfect forum in which to release this video. Very entertaining comments!
Hey Gene I was just kidding (sort of). But there is a point. And it’s a point that always seems to get lost when this debate happens. The point is this: While it’s true that I’m biased because I’m a cyclist, it seems to me that not only the driver’s reaction, but the negative responses conjured by this discussion are, well, OVER-reactions. Like my comment above to Gene. I was counting on one of his measured and witty responses because that is something I’m OK with actually. Mostly.
I don’t think there are many people (though there are a few) who believe it’s a proper and proportionate response to nearly hit a cyclist and/or lay in wait to retaliate when the offense is being slightly too far to the right on a narrow (or any) road. I mean really, what is causing this angst? The two seconds it takes to slow slightly, check to make sure it’s OK to move slightly left, then pass? The extra mili-deci-semi-nano-meter of tread wasted in turning your low-profile tires? And how often does this happen to the average driver? Once a month? Once a week? Once a day? Is it REALLY such an egregious act?
Again, I freely admit my bias. But I honestly have never heard an acceptable explanation as to why people get so ANGRY over what amounts to something less annoying than getting the wrong kind of fries at Burger King. What are you doing ordering fries at Burger King ANYWAY?!? HUH?!?
Jeff’s fabrication about me defending the driver notwithstanding (I called the driver a jerk and said he was out of control), the ability of bike enthusiasts here to deny Mr. K’s culpability in this is just stupid.
The way I see it is if Mr. K were in a car or on a motorcycle, traveling 6 M.P.H. weaving in and out of the lane, law enforcement would have stopped him and given him a sobriety check. If you cannot maintain a safe position on the road because the bike you’re riding might get damaged, ride a different bike or ride a different road.
Pretty simple stuff really.
Oh, and please can we drop the “you don’t understand because you don’t ride” BS? I was taking bike rides (24.5 lbs of American Eagle before they changed the name to Nishiki) from Chatsworth to Ventura before any of you were zygotes. The biggest technological breakthrough we had was toe clips.
Spare me.
The reason I survived the thousands of miles I put on my bike(s) is that I didn’t weave all over the road, or assume that the cars were going to avoid me just because I had the right to be there.
Are you talking about cheesesteaks now? I hear there’s a legit spot in your town.
ND sorry to hear you are not a local guy anymore. I am sure Miss May will enjoy the cooler climate and beach areas of Ventura. Ventura is a very canine friendly city. If you enjoy calamari, try http://www.andriasseafood.com/, which is in the Ventura Harbor Village area right across the street from the pet friendly beaches. Andrias outside patio area is great for us doggie folk and my “girls” love the calamari and all the nice folks eating there too.
ND I sincerely hope you and your family, including Miss May of course, enjoys living in Ventura. The City, I believe, is named after the Mission San Buenaventura (Saint Good Venture) so let’s hope it is a great (ad) venture for you and yours! I’ll miss your “helmet cam” too.
ScottE, ding ding ding, you nail it exactly. The amount of inconvenience suffered by a motorist having to wait/negotiate around a cyclist, EVEN IF THE CYCLIST IT RIDING INCORRECTLY, just doesn’t equate to this and similar types of agressive and dangerous responses by motorists. I think it comes down to (percieved) power….car vs. cyclist. A motorist can do pretty much whatever they please in an encounter with a cyclist….verbal abuse, throwing things at them, passing too close, following too close while laying on the horn, even bumping them from behind, passing and then pulling in front of them and slamming on the brakes (i’m thinking of the Mandiville canyon episode for example), and then simply driving off at a speed that the cyclist can’t match. They feel that there are no ramifications to this stuff. I have had ALL of the former happen to me, and I take pride in riding sensibly and within the law. I recall a case a few years ago right here in SCV where there was a motorist who followed and physically confronte a cyclist over some sort of percieved slight, only to have the cyclist mace him, after which the old guy had a coronary and died. I don’t believe the cyclist was ever found. There is a part of me that thought the macing was deserved, although the outcome was unfortunate. Point is, actions have consequences….
I am not a cyclist although many years ago I regularly rode my Univega 10 speed everywhere…
The issue to me is not who has the right of way according the CA Vehicle Code but what is the right thing to do as a human being. In any contest between an SUV and a cyclist, the cyclist will suffer the more serious injury and for that reason alone, anyone driving a several thousand-pound vehicle should exercise greater caution. The older guy in the SUV has anger management issues and he should address those before he causes a tragedy whether on the road or elsewhere.
We all share the roads, sidewalks, public trails, etc and each of us has a responsibility to ensure we do our best so that all of us make it home safely. If that means slowing down, moving to the left or right, or stopping to let someone else go first, so be it. I feel the same way about cyclists and other drivers when dealing with pedestrians.
“In any contest between an SUV and a cyclist, the cyclist will suffer the more serious injury and for that reason alone, anyone driving a several thousand-pound vehicle should exercise greater caution. ”
Isn’t this backwards? Doesn’t common sense say that the party in the greater personal risk would be wisest to be the one to exercise the greatest caution?
At least, if they want to stay alive.
Spineflower2 the California Vehicle Code laws are very clear on the right of the cyclist to use the entire lane and also regarding the legal requirement that all drivers drive only as is safe for the road conditions. If the SUV driver cannot clearly see around a curve etc he/she is required to SLOW DOWN and be prepared to stop in case of any road hazards. I would also add that aside from the obvious weight advantage the vehicle has, that driver probably can also see the bike ahead whereas the cyclist does not have eyes in the back of his/her head so has less time to react and move over. Please SLOW DOWN and SHARE the roads, trails, etc. or you may be individually responsible for needlessly injuring or killing another human being. Is getting there 10 seconds sooner worth that?
sigh… By “common sense” I’m talking about the laws of physics, not the laws of California.
I agree with Berta? I just threw up in my mouth a little.
…protein style.
Kevin you are way to nice. I would have chucked my water bottle at the douche bag. If you really have his license plate number I would suggest you turn it in with a copy of the video to the sheriff’s so this guy can be cited for reckless driving.
Hey Captain Hater. The Driver was in the wrong. If Kevin was driving in the middle of the road the drive it still wouldn’t matter. The asshole in the Rogue should have slowed down till Kevin could move over safely, then went on his way. The term “As Practical” in that statement means just that going up hill Kevin would move back and forth so he needs more space that is practical. You also forgot the line below that which says, May move left to pass a parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, animal, avoid debris, or other hazards.
Why don’t you reference passing lanes on this page and tell me that driver isn’t 100% in the wrong. There is even a picture for you as I know you have trouble with words sometimes. (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/traffic_lanes.htm)
then you go down futher on the page and it says this…
—When passing a bicyclist in the travel lane ensure enough width for the bicyclist, typically 3 feet. Do not squeeze a bicyclist off the road.
Bicyclists may occupy the center of the lane when conditions such as a narrow lane or road hazard make it unsafe to ride in a position that may provide room for a vehicle to pass. With any slow-moving vehicle, drivers should follow at a safe distance. When it is safe the bicyclists should move to a position that allows vehicles to pass. Remember, bicyclists are entitled to share the road with other drivers.
Bicyclists have the same rights and responsibilities as vehicle and motorcycle drivers.
Respect the right-of-way of bicyclists because they are entitled to share the road with other drivers. Here are some critical points for drivers and bicyclists to remember:
Motor vehicle drivers must:
Pass a bicyclist as you would a slow moving vehicle. Allow sufficent clearance, and ample room for movement and unexpected road conditions. Change lanes and pass with caution only when it is safe.
Be careful when approaching or passing a bicyclist on a two lane highway or freeway.—
LIKE ALWAYS CAPTAIN GENE only looked for evidence to support his TROLL argument. C
Just the facts Nate, that’s all I’m posting. Mr. K. was all over the road. Clearly riding a delicate bike on a debris filled roadway is anything but “practical”. As for you accusing me of trollish behavior, all I can say is Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.
I just gave you the facts even a illustration that looked remarkably like this situation and still you TROLL on.
People on bikes can ride where they want if they need to move over into the road because it is tore up or their is debris or a parked car it is the job of the automobiles to adjust to the bikers not the other way around that is straight out of the handbook.
Remember you were the one running the california drivers handbook. I didn’t write it I just recite it.
Kevin was 100% in the right and this driver should be cited for reckless driving.
Just because you don’t like the facts, that doesn’t make me a troll.
If law enforcement were to review the video, they would probably ask the same question I did; “why were you swerving?”
If the answer was “debris in the roadway”, they would probably ask the same question I did; “what debris?”
If the answer was “trust me, it’s there”, well, I’ll tell you what, you try that defense some time and let me know how it works out.
All of those are your opinion NOT FACTS and shows you have never had your kester on a bike going up hill in one of rural areas.
It also puts responsibility on the biker. LEGALLY Bikers have the right of way. Automobiles always have to yield to pedestrians and bikes. So it doesn’t matter where he was on the road as the illustration shows.
A bike going up hill needs more space as they tend to swerve more. Cars are legally bound to slow down and pass only when it is SAFE to do so.
You will not find one sentence in the drivers handbooks that would put blame on Kevin. He has as much right to the road as the driver.
Keep TROLLING.
Just FYI for everyone- there’s more than one Jeff participating in this thread.
As for anyone else complaining how slow Kevin was going….well the man does have only one leg. I’d like to see you try to keep up.
It’s not that he shouldn’t be allowed to ride at that slow speed. Sheesh, he’d kick my a$$ in any bike ride.
But to be that slow, and enter the center of the lane, well that’s just plain dangerous and unexpected even to a reasonable driver (which is clearly not the guy in the video).
If you want to segregate us on the right side of the road -even though the law looks at us as traffic and allows us the latitude to avoid obstacles and hazards- then I expect you to be out at the next County bike planning meeting to show your support for adding Class II lanes on all the rural routes around town.
Sure, as long as we “equals” pay into the road construction funds in the same amounts!
Why do people always use the argument that I pay more taxes for roads because I own a vehicle and therefore I have more of a right than bicyclists.
I would say the majority of bicyclists in this area also own vehicles so we pay the same taxes and this argument doesnt hold water.
We already EQUALLY pay for road construction.
Not equal. Road construction also comes from gas tax revenues at the federal and state level. How much gas tax do you pay for that bike?
I was saying most people in this area who have a bike also own a vehicle. I ride my bike but I also commute by car and pay gas taxes like everyone else. Your argument doesnt hold water.
Why do you think our roads are failing?? Vehicles wear down roads requiring major maintenance. All the costs associated with road widenings have to do with vehicle capacity exceeding road capacity.
One could make the arguement that vehicles are not paying their fair share in taxes in keeping roads maintained properly.
Jeff:
You really need to take a look at the Traffic Study for OVOV and look to see how many class I or even class IIbike lanes are created versus the number that will be class III. I think it will cause you to reexamine your opinion of the plan. Biking is “encouraged and promoted” per the plan but the bikeways are Class III on streets with very heavy traffic loads (over 10,000 cars/day). Couple that with double the volume of today and incidents like Kevins will unfortunately become all the more common.
NFIC, you pointed this out several months ago and 1) I was totally ashamed I had missed it in my perusal of OVOV and 2) this made me reconsider how I wrote about it.
I think you said that Class II lanes on places like Bouquet will be removed. Needless to say it hit home.
Send me your e-mail and I’ll send you the study. It is interesting reading.
Isn’t that the great irony in all of this, all of the people screaming at bicyclists using the actual road are also the ones who yell against having bike lanes. I will ALWAYS choose a bike lane when available but again they are not.
Hey Nate….stop confusing the Capt with such irrelevant stuff such as the law ….and remember, that the SUV driver in the video was in a hurry to get somewhere and KK was slowing him down!!! The fact thaqt he pulled over to give him crap only meant that he had to hurry up even more later to get back on schedule. Perhaps there was another cyclist further up the road that day that lies in the ditch yet undiscovered because of his haste.
Capn says….”Clearly riding a delicate bike on a debris filled roadway is anything but “practical””
I could say “Clearly driving a car on a cyclist filled roadway is anything but “pratical”
but that would only be another similarily stupid statement.
It might have also been impeding his need for texting while driving, we have not properly considered the fact that he may have been texting and was pissed that Kevin spooked him because he just noticed him in time… that would warrant his anger, right?
A link to the mandeville canyon incident http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/01/cyclist-sentenced.html
I left out links that show the cyclist in the hospital, too gory, but they can be easily found. The Capn should take solace in reading the posted comments in the article, many, many people sided with the motorist. Damn cyclists need to stay outta my way, fer Christ sakes!!!!
“I could say “Clearly driving a car on a cyclist filled roadway is anything but “pratical”
but that would only be another similarily stupid statement.”
So you think that driving a car on a cyclist filled roadway is “pratical”[sic]“? So it would follow that you think it’s impractical for the City to close the roads to cars when there’s a bike race?
Wow.
All hail, King Of The Straw Man!
Hail, hail!
I understand the angst of the cyclist whose life is at stake. Just riding along on a beautiful day. On roads that are typically less traveled (Not always, but usually. My typical ride heads straight for the hills).
I still don’t understand the angst of the drivers (of which I am occasionally one although angst-less) that have to momentarily slow down and/or change lanes.
I. Don’t. Get. It.
Well Scott the amount of work to pull your foot of the gas… I feel sorry for people in their cars!
Tell you what guys, you go ahead and ride as Mr. K. did, and believe if you like that avoiding sharp pebbles on the road will be an adequate excuse for swerving into traffic.
Mr. K. is very, very lucky he didn’t swerve a fraction of a second later. Whether you believe he had the right to do so or not (he didn’t) he’d have been hit.
No legal comeback? I take that as a concession of defeat!
A victory to the rational and legal.
I DEMAND my right to swerve!
(This is too easy!)
Thanks to Nate for posting ALL of the relevant language in the vehicle code. It debunks what the Capn said earlier:
“Second, Mr. K was in the middle of the road, and his speedometer indicated he was only going 6 M.P.H. He had no legal right to be in the center of the lane as the video clearly shows he was. Also, since he was only traveling 6 M.P.H., he could have safely stayed way off to the side of the road as, at that speed, there was little if any danger if he were to go into the marbles.
Mr. K may very well have “knowledge of the rules of the road” but his behavior on this day was not in keeping with those rules.”
When one bases an opinion based on falsehoods, it is very hard to accept their credibility, even though he does bring up some valid points on this issue. Try sticking to the facts, you will perhaps win more over to your point of view…
Throughout this thread I have never defended the actions of the driver, nor have I ever been disrespectful to Kevin Korenthal.
What I got in return was people lying about what I said, and people calling me out.
So all I can say in response to those cyclists that can’t be objective about this is please, please do us all a favor and always be all over the road at low speed when cars are approaching. If you think it’s you’re right that’s almost as good as it being your right!
Thanks again Jeff.
Class Capt. Gene could bring.
Direct quotes from the Capn’s posts:
“Clearly the driver in question was out of control, but Mr. K was clearly not following the rules of the road either”
“He had no legal right to be in the center of the lane as the video clearly shows he was.”
“Mr. K. is very, very lucky he didn’t swerve a fraction of a second later. Whether you believe he had the right to do so or not (he didn’t)”
And my favorite:
“Why all the hate? I just pointed out the facts. If you guys can’t handle the facts that’s your problem. Loosen up your helmet straps it’s affecting your thinking.”
Once again I will say, I think you make SOME valid points, but you grasp of the “facts” as it relates to the motor vehicle code is just plain wrong. Reread Nate’s quotes from the relevant document, which must be considered in it entirety, not just picking out isolated phrases that support your thinking. Several times you say you are only quoting the facts, which has been shown to be inaccurate. I never call people out for their opinions, but I msot certainly will call you out about false statements.
As the only one with true Street Knowledge, I can settle this by dropping some of that knowledge.
I think Mystikal said it best:
“Shake ya ass. But watch ya self.”
All facts my friend; Mr. K. was weaving all the way to the middle of the lane, the video does not show any debris and it shows that Mr. K. was traveling a mere 6 M.P.H.
From Nate’s post: “Bicyclists have the same rights and responsibilities as vehicle and motorcycle drivers”
That means that Mr. K. surely had the right to be on the road, but he does not have a right to meander into the middle of the road to avoid some invisible debris any more than a car or motorcycle does. Again, if he was in a car or on a motorcycle and was weaving like that, he would have been given a sobriety check.
Just curious, if you’re on your bike going downhill at say 30, and you come up on a car going 6 M.P.H. weaving all over the road, do you just say to yourself “oh well, that’s his right” and wait until it’s “safe to pass”?
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