In a prior post last week I raised some hackles when I made some ad hominem attacks against parents of charter school students, and several replies came in from those parents defending local charter schools, particularly SCVi (Santa Clarita Valley International). One defender posted the video above to explain her love of SCVi and why it was infinitely superior to the already funded public insitutions in the SCV.
In watching the video, one quickly comes to the following conclusions:
- Students sitting on the floor somehow equates to great innovation in education;
- Several students show a penchant for wearing stoner/skater caps;
- There are six adults pictured and two administrators featured. Does this mean SCVi, with 325 reported students in 2010, has a student/teacher ratio of 81 to 1?
- Amber Raskin looks like the product of some diabolical experiment combining the DNA of Laurie Ender and Nancy Grace.
(Sorry about that last one, but I am from Iowa and it is my birthright to be sarcastic. Think of Garrison Keillor from Minnesota.)
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LOL, well I didn’t respond to last weeks rant about charters because I’m not much of a fan of blanket statement about anyone or any school, or type of school. But I am also the parent of an SCVi student. Do I think SCVi is infinitely better than any other school out there? No. I do think it is a better match for my family than our neighborhood school, and our neighborhood school is a great school. My son’s class has a 19 to 1 student teacher ratio.
Amber Raskin is a really kind and very motivated person. If I were to guess her politics I’d say her politics are much more in line with yours than with those of Laurie Ender or Nancy Grace. Although as a school administrator I think she pretty much keeps her political opinions to herself. I do know she wasn’t thrilled at all with the blaming the teachers aspect of the film Waiting for Superman.
As to the skater caps, true the school doesn’t have much in the way of a restrictive dress code. As a parent I appreciate that. A cap isn’t going to be disruptive to other students learning, and I think it’s silly so many schools would put such restrictions on what kids can and can’t wear. I understand that if it’s disruptive, sure ask the kid to change, but a cap? Not so much.
Laurie Ender is a Republican because she (currently) lives in a majority Republican District. If her family made enough coin to live in West LA you could bet that she would most likely be a Democrat.
I am a registered member of the Green Party because that is by far the easiest way to cut off a debate with an earnest Tea Partier.
While I am not against or for charter schools, the video does not do much of anything to sell me on why the school is better than my child’s current public school.
They say in the video that what makes the school special is that parents, children and teachers work together toward a common goal. But, that happens now at my child’s school. In fact, there is almost nothing contained within the video that my child does not currently get.
The school is located in a strip mall. I have no doubt the faculty/founders are well intentioned. But I would have some serious questions before I would place my child here.
I was actually there the day they made that video. There is so much wonderful footage that didn’t make it to the video. It was great to sit in a room and here parents, teachers (facilitators in the SCVi world), admin, and students (again, in SCVi speak, they would be ‘learners’) share their experiences and their love for education and specifically SCVi. It’s such a neat community of learners, families and staff. THAT is what I love about SCVi and THAT is (one of the things) I love about the charter movement. People care. People are invested and engaged and seek opportunities to make a difference. Seriously, I don’t get your need to bag on charter movement (or SCVi). Our experiences with SCVi bring me so much joy and peace in the choices that we are making for our children. I also feel that the ‘competition’ that SCVi (and now other charters) brought has created some great momentum for assessment and change within the local school districts. I think their presence in our community has been an absolute blessing.
I have to bag on the charter movement because, in the suburbs, I see it as either a hippified, feel good throw back to the 60′s or a tabernacle for teaching the platform of the Republican party. With terms like “learners” and “facilitators,” not to mention the stoner caps, I conclude that SCVi falls on the hippified side.
We’re proud to be hippified, then
Not sure why that is worthy of your constant disapproval, but so be it.
I spend way too much time on facebook, I just tried to hit “like” on your response Walker.
Check out the article I posted below. It definitely doesn’t come from a pro-charter perspective, but it also doesn’t make blanket statements against all charters (or people or educators) either. I think that it does illustrate why there is a large distrust of charter schools. And I think that SCVi fits into the category of a community based charter that aims at meeting the needs of all students. Not at all one of the many for profit charters that are out there.
Thanks. I’ll check it out
Oh, and addressing your points…..
1. Who said that sitting on the floor was great innovation? It can provide a larger and more comfortable space for students to spread out their work or project. Even in *gasp* traditional school students are often allowed to sit on the floor for individual reading time or to work on a project. Sometimes even to rest. I’m current sitting on the floor typing to you
I can work (read, explore, create) much more comfortably in this manner and am able to work purposefully for longer periods of time when I am able to work comfortably. Thankfully I’m not required to sit at a desk all day (I don’t even own one, BTW, I do all of my work sitting right here on the livingroom floor) because I know that wouldn’t be a productive way for *me* to work. If you work best sitting at a 2.5×2 desk, good for you.
2. I don’t know what a stoner /skater hat is. The kids are allowed to wear hats in class, though, if they want. It’s a total non issue. If it were a distraction (to the student or others) I’m sure it would be addressed. Seriously. Non-issue. I’ve never even given it a second thought.
3. I don’t understand your point at all. Did you really think it was necessary to interview and include the footage of all 22 (I believe) facilitators and dozen or so support staff/admin? BTW, I spotted quite a few more staff members than the few that were interviewed and you can see in the video that the class sizes are pretty small. Really, I don’t get your point with this one at all.
4. What’s with the personal attack? Someone is just a big old meany, I say. At any rate, Amber is great. She cares about kids, she cares about education, and she cares about our community. Some people talk about reform and change and do nothing. Amber puts her entire being in to the reform and change she believes in. She should serve as an inspiration to others, not the butt of some pseudo reporters bad joke.
I am old, but not big or a meany. Amber is probably a lovely person but methinks she has ambitions to be the next Julie Aigner-Clark, figuring out how to scale up SCVi to make some coin.
Maybe you should, like, meet Amber or know a little about her before you run off making wild accusations. And you may not be big, but you are in fact a big meany, IMO. There’s not a bit of substance to this post, your criticism of charters/SCVi, or your criticism of Amber. I think you need to find a hobby. I’m also thinking the SCVi anti-bullying club might be of some benefit to you.
Walker:
If mockery and sarcasm are bullying then you would need to lock up the entire states of Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Nebraska, North AND South Dakota!
A friend of mine frm another state posted this on her facebook page today. It’s a great article I hope you’ll read it. http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/03/28-11
Open your mind Mr. Myers. Take a tour of the school. Maybe meet Ms. Raskin? Then criticize and make your sarcastic zings. Right now- you haven’t a clue. Are you this ill-informed on all of the subjects on which you post? yikes
And I never said SCVi was “infinitely better”. I said it’s different. A completely different approach to learning.
fyi- all K/1 split classes= 20 kids to 1 teacher till 12:15 when the kinders go home. Then 10 to 1 for the next 3 hours. That part is “infinitely better”.
What time do the skull bongs come out?
4:20
I am always very happy to see children enthusiastic about learning. If SCVi inspires enthusiasm, that is terrific. Hat’s off (or on, as the case may be) to SCVi. If your kid thrives there, I am all for it.
That said, there is nothing particuarly new or magical about project-based learning. It is even used in “regular” schools. It can make learning more fun and it can give kids insight into how what they are learning applies to real life situations. But it can also be used as a way for some children to slack off while others shoulder the majority of the assignment. That is a complaint I have heard from my daughter when assigned group projects at school, and it is a complaint I read on one site wherein parents commented about SCVi.
Another complaint I read suggested that there is a problem with discipline at SCVi in that children are allowed to run a bit wild and there are no consequences for not participating in the assigned projects. One wonders then, if learning is really occurring for all students at SCVi since homework is minimal and participationg not really enforced. Here are a couple of things that make for interesting reading, although they aren’t on the SCVi approved list, I’m sure: http://www.greatschools.org/california/los-angeles/community/discussion.gs?content=5962
http://www.scv-family.com/forum/topics/concerned-that-my-9-year-old
I also believe that some of the stated goals of the school stray a bit into the parental arena. Compassion, leadership, personal and social responsibility — these things one would hope are being taught at home. Schools can reinforce those ideas perhaps. But parents are the primary examples children will follow in those areas. And how do group projects, which don’t really demand participation from the ENTIRE group, teach PERSONAL responsbility?
As to the issue of bullying, coincidentally, we have neighbors whose sons attend SCVi. They are middle school aged, and there have been several incidents wherein these boys have threatened and used foul language to a first and third grader who are also our neighbors. I know this because my daughter, who in spite of not having learned leadership at school, does step in and defend her younger friends when they are being bullied.
Linda:
Actual facts!!! These comments are pretty damning… Makes the defenders look like they have been HYPNOTIZED!!!!! (or just two ashamed to admit they were sold a bill of good about the move)
I especially like the comment about how the students think the principal does not like children and is only seen giving tours.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting that the schools philosophy or emphasis on project based learning is anything new or magical. Rather, the school tends to lean toward a project based approach and uses traditional instruction/work as a secondary approach. Other schools tend to emphasize traditional teaching methods and use projects as a secondary approach. I do think you and others may misunderstand what is happening in terms of the project based learning, though. The majority of the kids projects are done on their own. They are permitted to work in groups in terms of research and collaboration, but each child is responsible for his or her own work. If you’re honestly interested in seeing more about what these projects ‘look’ like you could check out the web site of one of the facilitators. So far as I know they all keep pretty up to date information on their sites. Here’s one I have bookmarked, simply because my kid is in this class
http://www.wix.com/kfaulkner/faulkner#!page-8 . You can look under ‘current projects’ to see what they’re currently working on.
Don’t get me wrong, though. They do work in groups as well and do have group grades. As you’ve shared, and as I’ve experienced at every other school I’ve been in (Elementary through University) or that my children have been in, group work can sometimes be a PITA and sometimes people don’t pull their weight. It’s a bummer. Hopefully the disparity is recognized and graded accordingly.
I’m not really sure what to say about participation not being enforced. It could be an issue from before we joined SCVi (we were not there for the founding year) and it’s no secret that the school suffered some growing pains last year, but so far as our experiences participation is absolutely enforced and I most certainly hear about it if my child is not keeping on task or turning in her assignments.
I do believe, though, that a lot of the criticism at Great Schools is coming from parents that feel the need to vilify the school because they found that it was not a great fit for their family. Honestly, I’m totally okay that SCVi is not a great fit for every child and family. Actually, I think that is WONDERFUL. Every child and family has their own set of unique needs and SCVi offers something a little different, something with a unique look/feel/presentation. It is NOT right for every child/family, but it is right for my child/family and I’m so grateful for the opportunity to have a say in the way my child is being educated. — But anyways. I do feel that often times families that try SCVi and realize it is not right for them feel the need to vilify the school. They can’t just state that it wasn’t a good match. It’s like breaking up with your HS boyfriend. You can’t just say ‘it didnt work out’, you have to lament to the world what a raging jerk he was. What a negative experience it was to be with him and how glad you are to be rid of him. — But that’s just me. Maybe each of those families on greatschools have perfectly legitimate complaints and reasons for leaving and I’m sorry for them that SCVi wasn’t able to provide what they needed. Thankfully it has been everything we’ve ever hoped to provide for our children in terms of their formal education.
Sorry….I feel like I’m going on and on Linda, but I did want to be thorough since I know you have an actual interest.
Bullying…I can tell you that our only experiences with what could be considered ‘bullying’ have been handled in ways that we have been more than happy with. I’ve got somewhere to be….but really quickly….our 4th grader has unfortunately had a lot of experience with bullying. We were previously in SUSD and were content with the way bullying was handled, but it wasn’t anything spectacularly amazing (leave eachother alone, some day you will be friends, etc). She has not had ANY bullying at SCVi in regards to her special needs, but there has been at times some typical 4th grade girl drama. The school and teachers have gone out of their way to ensure that the girls aren’t just told not to bully, but seek to understand their own role in possible unkind acts, etc. They started a parent/child bookclub and read (and discussed/did activities) books that dealt with bullying. They have gone above and beyond to deal with this issue, IMO, and continue to do so.
I really do have to go! I have more to say and I really do wish I had the time to share how great my girls ‘facilitators’ are (my younger daughters took time on her weekend to exchange texts about a situation we were experiencing and wrote what was practically an essay about my daughter, her current strengths and struggles, our shared goals for her, etc). I really can’t say enough great things about our experiences at SCVi and it’s been an absolute relief for our family to find a school that doesn’t just ‘work’ for us, but is everything we could possible desire for our girls.
Walker, I have no doubt that there are some good things going on at SCVi and I don’t resent charter schools at all. I am also sure you could find any number of people who have negative things to say about the school where I work or any school, for that matter. There are bad teachers, bad kids and unfortunate things that happen at every school. My daughter had some bad experiences at Hart — bad enough that she was given a transfer to another school. Now Hart has some wonderful programs and a stellar reputation. And most everyone she knew from elementary and junior high attends that school. But it was not a good place for her and she is much happier and getting better grades elsewhere.
My point in posting the comments I found was simply to give voice to the possible negatives at SCVi. Anyone enrolling their child there would be wise to do their own investigation and inquiry into the issues raised, and that would include talking to parents like you, who are happy with the choice they made.
Linda, I know some teachers at other schools in the area and you’re right — the kids that come out of SCVi have no sense of personal responsibility – they are shocked when they don’t turn in homework and fail tests and aren’t allowed to do “make-ups” or “extra credit.” The school seems to make everyone feel good about themselves but doesn’t seem to be teaching how the real world operates. Yes, it’s good to be able to work in a group setting, but personal achievement is the basis for self-esteem, not being in a group where other kids might be getting credit for something your kid did! That would just teach me that Socialism is bull****.
Oh, a pattern is emerging! Stoner caps were a dead giveaway!
“personal achievement is the basis for self-esteem?” Huh. Guess I missed that memo. I always thought that a self-esteem based on performance was just a recipe for depression. Why even try something, if there is a chance of failure? Is this not a boiled down argument for perfectionism?
Just say that you are a disabled person, totally dependent on others for everything — from where would you gather self-esteem, based on personal achievement? Or, say you are a Rwandan, forced out of your homeland by violence, and forced to live in a parched desert, where you cannot even grow a seed or draw some water? What personal achievement garners the Rwandans self-esteem? Or, maybe you are just a totally broken person, with a history of abuse, or poverty, or violence — where is the personal achievement-based self-esteem?
If there is a measure of self-esteem that is not equally applicable to all people, throughout all time, in all circumstances, then what is the value of said self-esteem? It is just a balloon waiting to be deflated.
I say that self-esteem should be equally available to all, and not based on any performance, because we all fail. I don’t want to be a yo-yo, riding an emotional roller coaster between “achievements.” Strive for things, yes. Keep trying, yes. Obviously, there are worldly rewards for certain “successes.”
But to the poor soul who does not “achieve,” — and, really, this is all of us — self-esteem can only find solid footing in unconditional love.
And, no, my kids don’t attend SCVi, and, yes, they do have to complete certain tasks daily.
Lori:
I think you mean Darfur. Rwanda is not a desert, and most of the refugees ended up in Belgium or France.
Actually, I was mixing the Rwandans refugees in Zaire (which is decidedly not desert) and the Ogoni refugees in Benin. My mistake. Should have checked my references first.
I think you are taking a limited view of “achievements” and “performance” as it applies to self esteem. For those with disabilities or circumstantial limitations, achievements may take different forms. Simply completing a task or persevering through a great tragedy or challenge are achievements. Learning your times tables or how to hit a ball are achievements. Being a good listener and caring friend is an achievement. I don’t know anyone who is so severely disabled or limited by circumstances that they cannot take pride in something that they have done at some point in their lives. The potential for achievement exists in almost every circumstance.
You cannot “give” anyone self esteem. It doesn’t how matter how much you love someone unconditionally, or how often you tell them they are pretty or smart. In fact, studies have shown that praising children for being smart is actually counterproductive and leads to underachievement. http://www.nea.org/home/42298.htm Besides, children are perceptive. They pick up on phony words of praise, and they can clearly see when someone else performs better than they do.
Nonetheless, encouraging them to do their best and and keep trying is important for their own benefit as well as society’s. We cannot all win the race, but we can all participate at some level and take pride in that participation.
Yup. I agree that you cannot give anyone self esteem, and empty praises will come back and bite you in the butt. I cannot love unconditionally; I am human. None of us can love unconditionally.
Trying to do you best, actively participating in life, striving to achieve goals, all worthwhile things. And, of course, everyone “achieves” within their own means and circumstances. But if we tie self-esteem to achievement, of any sort, we are automatically setting up a self-esteem yardstick: Johnny earns a “B,” after lots of hard work, yet he could be better if he earned an “A.” A severely handicapped person keeps a positive outlook, despite horrific tragedy, yet he/she could be better if he/she could wiggle a toe. A child living in a crime-infested, high poverty community avoids becoming involved in gangs, but he/she could be better if he/she could get a decent paying job.
It is a never-ending treadmill of dissatisfaction, of constant comparison and hammering of self-esteem.
What I tell my kids is that everyone has strengths and weaknesses, and our self-worth is not based on what we do. I tell my kids that they are wonderful because they are creations of God, who loves them infinitely. Therein lies the freedom to fail, and still be okay; the freedom to not measure up, by any standard, and still know that your life is worth living; the freedom to explore your personality and strengths without worrying about what is “normal;” being able to accept others, warts and all, without judgment, levels the playing field and humbles us all.
So, that is my soapbox for the day.
Again, I think YOU are making that leap by quantifying achievement in material terms, the same way some people judge their degree of success in this life by the kind of car they drive or the amount they paid for their house, rather than by the qualities they express and what value they bring to the world. It is an easy trap to fall into, especially in this town, but that is where parents and teachers can step in and clarify.
So you think your children feel self esteem because you tell them God loves them? I don’t think so. But as a parent you are certainly free to tell them that. Teachers in publicly funded school cannot tell them that, whether they believe it or not. Teachers are responsible for teaching your children reading, writing and arithmetic. And if your child puts forth little or no effort because they feel it is “okay to fail” or they “don’t have to measure up to any standard,” then you are, in my opinion, doing your children a disservice. You may love them and God may love them, but they won’t find anyone else on earth to not hold them to standards or willing to support them financially.
I don’t think that I am making a leap, just following the self-esteem/achievement connection to a logical end. I respect that you have a different opinion. I dont think that my 42 years have garnered me perfect knowledge of anything.
I don’t think that my kids’ current self-esteem is tied to my tellingthem that they are unique an wonderful creations of God. My kids are immature, by design, and I am sure their self-esteem is closely tied to family dynamics and inter-personal comparisons. However, my hope is that, as they mature, my words will continue to ring in the back of their heads, and that they will reach a place of comfort in their own skin at a much younger age than I did. Side note: I would never want to turn back the clock and be myself, younger than, say, 36ish.
I full on encourage my kids to strive, and be kind, and give, and participate in society, and learn, etc. My kids are under no delusion that they can survive this world with their heads in the clouds. I challenge them on a regular basis, and they understand what it takes to be a mature adult (well, they understand as much as their age dictates).
I understand the restrictions of public educators, and I think this is one of it’s faults — not speaking religiously, but that, by design of the classroom setting, teachers cannot focus on each child’s unique strengths and gifts, and must measure all the kids by a standard yardstick. I know there are teachers who find ways around this, and I know there are isolated examples of individual attention, but mass evaluation is the rule.
Sure, adults must live up to a uniform
code of production, but kids are not miniature adults, and should be treated with the appropriate accomodations for age and individual maturity.
Lastly, just so you don’t think that I am a do-whatever-makes-you-happy type of parent, my eldest is 15, and is require to get a job or internship. He has tried out a couple of things (applied to Magic Mountain, attended a few Teen Advisory meetings) and is now applying for a job (unpaid) at coffee shop. He is already 99% independent with his education (algebra, Spanish, ecosystems, writing poetry, reading classics, journal, Krav Maga, guitar). My goal is that he will be able to function as an adult by the time he is 16. Same goals for my younger children, too.
Glad to hear it, Lori. Goals are always good to have. For us and for kids.
So it looks like the taxpayers are funding a self esteem academy! Great use of funds!
It would seem to Petz that there should always be a sense of decorum and reverence maintained in a classroom. Do the students refer to teachers by their first names too? Appropriate dress is a life lesson for impressionable young children, especially at school.
Well, thanks for posting the video, Mr. Myers. It seems to me that all of the various comments here support the fact that we all have differing ideas about what is important in education, and how it should work. Which is exactly why I support the idea of charter schools.
The beautiful thing is, no one has to send their child to one. It’s a CHOICE. And if not enough families make that choice, believe in it, or see it working for them, the school will not survive. The same cannot be said for a traditional public school.
Greatschools.com has several negative posts about SCVi from disgruntled parents. Question is, why did they send their child to SCVi in the first place? They must have felt that something was lacking in their child’s school experience to go through the bother of enrolling. Maybe it was the “faux elitism” or “pants peeing fear” that you accuse us charter school families of? Perhaps those were the reasons for the families who didn’t stick it out. They enrolled for all of the wrong reasons.
But for most of us who support these schools, you have our motivations all wrong. It’s not at all about being “infinitely superior”. It’s about having a passionate belief in the way we educate our kids. A belief that not everyone shares, but one that has worth just the same.
ps- maybe those “bully” SCVi kids are from Iowa?
All of these comments have just convinced me more that my opinion is thoughtful and righteous. The taxpayers are funneling just under $1 million into what appears to be a relatively disorganized self esteem academy with effectively NO accountability to the taxpayer. If your children are so special, do without the Lexus and stick a crowbar into your wallet and send them to a private hippified school.
I’m not sure why you keep going back to these factless jabs. It’s completely unproductive and frankly quite rude.
What tax payers are ‘funneling money’ to is an educational institution that is providing a service that families within our community desire. Why is this such an issue for you? As others have mentioned, SCVi is a school of choice. The families at SCVi are there because they want to be there. They drive from all over the valley, passing dozens of ‘distinguished’ schools along the way, because they believe in the SCVi approach and philosophy. Because what you see as a self esteem boosting waste of tax payer dollars they see as a welcomed alternative to the approach offered in every other school in the valley. So long as they remain secular and teach to state standards, which is obviously the case, what difference does it make to you? Choose not to send your own children (or grandchildren….or great grandchildren, as the case may be) to SCVi (etc) but open your eyes and realize that life isn’t always ‘one size fits all’ and sometimes it’s okay to know that something might not be right for you, but that doesn’t make it inherently evil or negative.
Well I desire a free Lexus but I would never really expect the taxpayers of California to give me one.
Here are the choices if you don’t like your public school:
1. Move to a place where you do like the public school;
2. Home school
3. Stick a crowbar in your wallet to send the kids to a private school
4. If you don’t have the money for a private school, move to a place with strong Catholic schools, embrace Roman Catholicism, and the parish will make sure your kids get educated.
But DON’T stick your hand out to have the taxpayers fulfill your “desires.”
Frankly, I suppose there is no point it discussing this with you if I you are set on being completely anti-charter/choice and irrational in your arguments. That is your right, though I’m thankful the law allows otherwise and schools like SCVi are able to provide an alternative for those who are seeking something outside of what is traditional offered within their community.
Tim, I wish you’d quit trying to be diplomatic and just tell us how you really feel……;-)
5. Start a charter school or find one that works for you.
But DON’T accept the traditional “one size fits all” education if it’s not working for your child.
PS- all those charter school families are actually doing the taxpayers a favor. Charters, on average, receive less money per pupil than the traditional schools in their areas.
False economy if they don’t learn a lick and become a general drag on society.
Lucky thing Hart has oversight responsibility and reviews our progress . SCVi is accountable to Hart to produce positive academic results and stick to the charter contract. The Hart School District Board unanimously voted to extend the school’s charter through 2015.
The same District that recently rejected the Einstein elementary application because they said they weren’t “qualified” to supervise a charter elementary school.
That poor Einstein Academy. 5 districts, 5 denials, 5 different reasons. Just goes to show you- they don’t hand these charters out to just anybody…
Like you said yourself, “AES looks suspicious”.
And remember- SCVi does serve jr. high and high school students.